In this episode of the Out of the Clouds podcast, host Anne Muhlethaler interviews former Commonwealth British gymnast, dancer, choreographer, entrepreneur and now certified breath coach Aicha McKenzie (@AichaMcKenzie).
Aicha is the CEO and founder of the AMCK Group, which she launched in 2005 with AMCK Dance - an award-winning international premium dance agency with the most elite selection of dancers, choreographers, and creative directors - as well AMCK Models in 2008, London’s only exclusively male model agency, counting over 150 male models on its books, shooting campaigns for Prada, Gucci, Burberry, among many others.
Aicha has made many TV appearances, appearing as a judge on reality dance shows in the UK and the US. Aicha has also been responsible for choreographing 300 Olympic dancers during the London 2012 Olympic Games.
Aicha and Anne met on a very special project with burlesque cabaret dancer Dita Von Teese, a filmed performance that was to be turned into a hologram, the keystone of the famed shoe designer Christian Louboutin’s 20th anniversary retrospective at the London Design Museum.
Over the course of this very personal interview, Aicha shares her amazing story, or her ‘many lives’ as she refers to it: from her first life as the first Black gymnast to win a medal at the Commonwealth Games, supported by her amazing mother, to becoming a commercial dancer and working as a choreographer with top artists, to her latest pursuit launching, running, and expanding an award-winning AMCK Group, which consists of four entities, AMCK Dance, AMCK Models, AMCK Fit and BreatheByAMCK.
The two of them move to talking about the stress of managing it all, Aicha’s health scares, and how movement has been a through line for her, even in difficult times. The conversation moves to managing burnout, launching a wellness arm with AMCKFit, learning to let things move through and the value in slowing down.
Anne and Aicha also discuss the power and purpose of our breath. The certified breath coach shares this wisdom: “Breath is the whole story: balance, reset, energise, activate, transform, heal, exhale” and said that she ‘loves working with the breath because it’s allowing that pause to exist, allowing yourself to literally take a breath.’
Having helped so many talented individuals at some point in their careers, the mother and CEO says that her work in its entirety is about the connection to being oneself, not being someone else or following another's path.
A very powerful, moving and inspirational interview with an incredible woman. Happy listening!
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Selected links from episode
You can find Aicha on Instagram - @AichaMcKenzie
On Twitter - https://twitter.com/aichamckenzie
Models by AMCK - http://www.amckmodels.com/
Dance by AMCK - https://www.amck.tv/
Breathe by AMCK - https://breathebyamck.com/
NFT recently launched - https://www.amck.io/
Pineapple Dance Studios in London - https://www.pineapple.uk.com/
Alvin Ailey - https://www.alvinailey.org/
Julliard School - https://www.juilliard.edu/
The Dita Von Teese hologram for Christian Louboutin's Design Museum Retrospective - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZedZN48VgjM
Aicha interviewed on the Power Hour with Adrienne Herbert - https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/aicha-mckenzie/id1443615779?i=1000432306200
Nadi Shodhana - Alternate nostril breathing - https://www.webmd.com/balance/what-to-know-about-alternate-nostril-breathing
The article 'Something's got to give'
The song 'Optimistic' by Sounds of Blackness
The body keeps the score, book by Bessel van der Kolk
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Anne Muhlethaler:
Hi, hello, bonjour and namaste. This is Out Of The Clouds, a podcast at the crossroads between business and mindfulness, and I'm your host, Anne Muhlethaler. So today on the podcast I am delighted to welcome an outstanding woman. She's a mother and entrepreneur, an ex-gymnast, a dancer, a choreographer, and now a breath coach. The name of this wonder woman is Aicha McKenzie. So Aicha and I met a few years ago when she joined our team to choreograph burlesque cabaret dancer artist, Dita Von Teese, for a recorded film to performance that was to be turned into a hologram, a project for Christian Louboutin, for whom I was working for back then. And that was the keystone of an exhibition that was to launch at the London Design Museum.
Anne Muhlethaler:
So while I was lucky to get to know Aicha a little, at the time I had no idea about her earlier career as a gymnast, or that later on she'd been responsible for choreographing 300 Olympic dancers during the London 2012 Olympic Games. So in this interview, she tells me about her amazing story, or her many lives, as she refers to it. We talk about her gymnastic and dance career, about not making it into the Olympics, about launching her first agency, AMCK, and we move to talking about the stress of managing it all, health scares, and how movement, breath, and allowing ourselves to slow down is so essential. This is a very beautiful, deep, intimate, and powerful interview. I hope that you enjoy this conversation as much as I did, happy listening. Aicha, it's so good to see you. Thank you so much for being here. Welcome to Out Of The Clouds.
Aicha McKenzie:
Amazing. Thank you for having me, Anne, thank you so much.
Anne Muhlethaler:
It's such a pleasure to see your face.
Aicha McKenzie:
I know, it's been a while and very different circumstances.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Yeah. I was trying to think, where were we when we saw each other last, and I think it was in Miami.
Aicha McKenzie:
I think it was in Miami, too, that was exactly what came up for me. I was like, no, we were in Miami. I remember it being dusk, sunset, and we're on the beach.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Yeah. And there was such a fateful coincidence as well. And it makes us sound like global jet setters, and to a certain extent we were back then, it's phenomenal. And it's funny, because I try to remember where did we meet for the first time? And there's a part of me that is almost blanking the first time we met and I'll tell you why, I had a feeling that I knew you before I knew you. So it's a very strange thing, when I was trying to think about that, I was like, there's a part of me that felt, I always knew Aicha and from the moment I met, you was like, "Oh, but of course it's Aicha," as if I had downloaded a sort of a use of a friendship.
Aicha McKenzie:
You caught onto one of my many lives.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Yeah, possibly. So one of the ways I like to start the podcast is actually not to focus on what people do or the projects they have or the work they do, but really for them to talk about their story freely and start wherever you want and tell us who you are and where you're from.
Aicha McKenzie:
Sure. I'm Aicha McKenzie, I do love my name.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Very good name.
Aicha McKenzie:
It's a funny thing, I really love my name. I'm Aicha McKenzie, I'm born in South London and I've grown up and lived in London all my life. And I want to say it's humble beginnings, but I don't think it's even that, it was circumstance. So my mother arrived from Jamaica when she was just a young girl and came over essentially not really with her family, she had some aunties had a tough time, but in true McKenzie spirit really carved out and made what she could make for her life. I have an older brother and there was me and we grew up in South London, and she somehow navigated life, she finessed it, that is what it is, she finessed it in order to get me into places and spaces that would give me the opportunities.
Aicha McKenzie:
I started doing gymnastics training and I was seven when I started and by the time I was 10 I was on the British national team, and so gymnastics became my entire childhood. I was doing rhythmic gymnastics, so that's the one with the ribbon and the ball and the beautiful and graceful dancey one. And I traveled the world and started competing and I was the junior British champion when I was 13, so that was a really big deal. It was a big deal obviously for me, it was a huge deal for my mom, and I think it was just a big deal for young Black girls everywhere because there had never been... There was no Black gymnasts really globally and not champions and so it wasn't what you were used to seeing and that the idea of representation wasn't a thing then. And I remember being in the newspaper and my mom just had tears streaming down her face and I was so confused. And she was just like, "This is amazing," I really have that imprint.
Aicha McKenzie:
So no, I was doing gymnastics, traveling the world, being the champion. I was in school, again, she finessed her way into having me sit a scholarship exam for a private girl school in London, and I got a place and I had this space and that was all paid for. They championed me doing the gymnastics as well, so it was just school and gym on the teenage parties. I remember hitting a phase and being absolutely so frustrated and devastated because then after a, while you, then you don't even get invited. And that thing as a teenager, when you're not getting invited, it's just like, "Life is ending." I'm a teenage son, I've been through it again.
Aicha McKenzie:
And gymnastics was the focus and I carried on competing, the goal of course, was the Olympics. And got to 18, you do trials throughout a certain season, so you get ranked, and I was ranked right in the right spot, all were going good for the whole season, the whole season, whole season, and then there's one competition which is the actual qualifier and I didn't qualify. So there I was at 18 having worked my entire life for this one goal of going to the Olympics.
Anne Muhlethaler:
I can't imagine.
Aicha McKenzie:
And it didn't happen. And if look back on it now I must have definitely gone into a shock response. I didn't really let myself process it, I was just like, "Okay. Right. That's not happening. What we're doing? Here's what we're doing, we're dancing. Okay. Off we go." Started on this dancing journey, and even that, again, I'm training, I have this beautiful, beautiful dance teacher, he was American but he was teaching at Pineapple Studios in London. And so I was doing jazz and basically I started to dance in the final years of my gymnastics career to help that process. And there was a turning point in what I was doing when I was competing because I was already different. So I was the only Black girl on the world circuit, they would give me the exotic prize.
Anne Muhlethaler:
No way.
Aicha McKenzie:
Yeah.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Oh wham.
Aicha McKenzie:
There was every microaggression and sometimes just straight up racism. And again, it wasn't a thing that I was allowing to hurt me or even penetrate. It was, "I'm going to use my difference for my advantage, and what I can really do is I can choose my music and I can work into a style that just feels like it's totally my self expression." So I started to take these classes at Pineapple from various teachers and one of the teachers was like, "After the gymnastics, dance is an incredible path for you." And I'd seen Alvin Ailey and that blew my mind. I was like, "Yes, I'm going to go and be an Alvin Ailey dancer." So of I went to New York and I was going to go study at Juilliard and I took the exam for Juilliard and I got a place and everything was amazing and they stopped doing foreign scholarships in that year. And so then that was just like, "Okay, that's not the dream anymore." Mom was like, "Okay, you got to find a school in England." I was like, "I was going to the Juilliard."
Anne Muhlethaler:
After Juilliard, it's like, "What?" Where do you go from there?
Aicha McKenzie:
Exactly. Well, where I went was Lane's Theater Art school in Epsom Surrey where Posh Becks was studying. Yeah. That was where she graduated from and it was all a big story. So I went there and I went for one term and I then I was out. I was like, "This isn't for me. Thanks. Bye." And to be honest, the principal, she was like, "Honestly, you can learn on the way. Crack on. Off you go." And gave me her blessing to just go out into the industry and try, and that's what I did. And again, it's using my difference. "What can I do to get myself on a dance job? Oh, I can tell them I do gymnastics and that's going to get me in."
Aicha McKenzie:
So I started dancing and every job you'd see me I'd be spinning the ribbon around at whatever show it was, there was Aicha with a ribbon or there was Aicha doing a back flip across the stage or whatever it was. I used that to get myself in and learn my craft and then I became a really, really good commercial dancer, danced with all the incredible boy bands and things of the era, and it was great and I loved it. I absolutely loved it, I loved being on stage, I loved just being in this, in this thing that was ever changing and meeting new people. And again, it's very much this space of self-expression and I had a lovely career and dance and then it pivoted and I went to Choreography.
Aicha McKenzie:
And I guess that's about the time where we met. There's definitely a thread that has always been about movement, there's a thread that's always been about self-expression, and there's definitely a thread where I think I was trying to find me, except I didn't know that, didn't know that was what was going on, because there was an outside confidence and yet sometimes a really deep insecurity. I didn't recognize it, I think that's what it was, I didn't recognize it. And certainly nobody recognized it in me, it was like, Aicha is, I always got the question, "How do you do it all? You're just so fearless, you're so confident, you can just do everything." No one recognized my insecurities at all.
Anne Muhlethaler:
When did you first come across this part of yourself?
Aicha McKenzie:
I think as I moved more and more into business. I thought there was a set of rules that I needed to follow, I thought I needed to be a certain person or a certain type of way. So when I opened the company and I thought I had to be the CEO, what does that mean? It certainly doesn't look like I do, doesn't perhaps act as I do, it needs to be more something else. And I think the more successful the business became, actually the more insecure that I became. So it wasn't working in the other, "Well, okay, it's working so I'm doing it right." It was like, "Ah, it's working, it's getting bigger and I'm getting smaller in it, I'm losing myself because I'm finding that I'm trying to be all of these things for all of these different people and losing myself." We know the world of fashion, we know the world of entertainment, of the judgment, and real power plays and hierarchy in a really warped sense. And yeah, It was just like playing some strange game. I wasn't enjoying it and loving everything, I really was.
Aicha McKenzie:
And the change, I guess, being really devoted to doing the work that I'm doing now, didn't come from a, "Oh, that was awful and this is great," it really wasn't. I really don't think that about the space. Yeah. There's stuff that was just really offkey, so many layers, but even my burnout, it wasn't really to do with that, it wasn't to do with that it's this really toxic environment that I'm not being able to navigate, it wasn't it. It was really just me losing and losing and losing myself because just didn't know what part of me people wanted, so I just was trying to be all sorts of different things.
Anne Muhlethaler:
And losing yourself in so doing.
Aicha McKenzie:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Anne Muhlethaler:
How long ago was the burnout?
Aicha McKenzie:
Rock bottom was 2018 and it was really a combination of a lot of different things. I had been thinking about this idea of the new business of in wellness and how to bring this practice and how to help everybody else I saw out there who were struggling. And can we bring mindful moments into our space? Can we bring them into our workplaces? Can we bring them on set? Can we bring them backstage? Can I be the person and I guess actually the pioneer to be able to do that for our industry? And I started with fashion and the entertainment industries, because they're the spaces that I know. And also, they're all clients who have had a long relationship with me and so then trusted me.
Aicha McKenzie:
And so when I was, "Oh, can we come and do some breathing or just have a moment of...?" I wasn't even saying meditation at the time that would've been really like, "What?" We were doing moving meditation, we were doing yoga and gradually offering more and more holistic... It was always holistic, but it became more and more okay for it to be just what it was, which is now why it's so wild, because I'm like, well, that's why now it's really the focus is on the breath. Because that's cutting away everything else, every barrier to us being able to do something like, "We're going to sit and breathe. You don't need to change your clothes. You don't need to go into a separate thing. You can have your eyes open, you can have your eyes closed," whatever it is, everybody can take that moment.
Aicha McKenzie:
But anyway, I was like, "This is going to be a wonderful thing to help all of these people and friends and colleagues and to help everybody de-stress, because I'm fine, clearly."
Anne Muhlethaler:
Clearly, absolutely fine.
Aicha McKenzie:
"Clearly I'm fine, it's everybody else out there." I have this image and it's always quite so clear. I guess this was probably about 2016 and I'm sitting at the sofa in my office and I'm saying to Catherine, who I work with, really developed BreatheByAMCK together. And I'm sitting with her and I'm like, "Everybody has these stories. All these people in this wellness and fitness and all these people in this space they have these incredible stories. They're these incredibly strong people who have overcome these massive circumstances and then this is almost led them to their purpose and I don't have anything. Why am I...? I don't know if I feel qualified." And I'm so qualified for all of these, I've done so many course, I've done so much study, and I love it.
Aicha McKenzie:
But I remember just sitting there like, "Oh, because I don't have this big story that I overcame. And then that gives me the right to be able to help people overcome their things." And she was looking at me like, "I'm not going to say anything, I'm just not going to say anything," And she just sat there and literally didn't say anything. And then when the whole crash came, she was like, "Yeah. Remember when you were saying that?" I was sitting there thinking, "Okay, well she lost her mom at that age."
Aicha McKenzie:
And the grief and the loss and the trauma upon trauma and upon trauma, actually, that I have overcome in my life, the anxiety, the panic attacks, the fainting, heart palpitations, the ending up in hospital, it's all part of my story. It's all part of really what my body has been going through for such a long time and I was not listening. And in fact, it can't have been that Miami trip, but there was another Miami trip around that same Art Basel period and I arrived in Miami and on day one fainted. I was like, "Oh my goodness, what's happened? Maybe I'm jet lagged?" Got myself round, but it's of course, I did it in the middle of the hotel lobby and it was a big deal. It was a big deal.
Anne Muhlethaler:
I understand, I've fainted before. It's never really where you want it to happen when it does.
Aicha McKenzie:
Yeah. It's not discreet. And so of course they call the ambulance and then I'm sitting there with the medics, I'm like, "No, I'm fine. I just arrived. It's jet lag. I'm just probably feeling a bit woo-woo. I'm fine." And as I'm saying this, they're like, "Okay," and then I, boom, drop again. So by this point now I'm whisked off into the ambulance, lights are flashing, I'm driving through Miami, I don't know something's going on with my heart, I'm feeling like I'm in a movie. I was like, I'm in CSI Miami, that's what it is." And I'm like, "I guess we're going to see the [inaudible 00:19:23] and all the things out... And they're shouting it all out on the radio, and I was like, "Okay, all right. This is what's happening." And I arrive into the hospital and I am in there for three days
Anne Muhlethaler:
No way?
Aicha McKenzie:
Yeah. Having extensive tests. There's stuff going on with my heart, they're trying to diagnose me, it's super scary, and it actually was a crash. It was a mental crash that was causing my body to stop and shut down.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Wow.
Aicha McKenzie:
And again, I didn't understand that.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Well, I want to say this is not the kind of stuff that people talk a lot about, so not knowing... When we don't talk about mental health challenges, what happens is most of us go around life not understanding what's going on. And I think it's wonderful that you're able to talk about it today because I'm looking at you thinking, "I didn't go through exactly the same thing, but I there's been a couple of moments where I had to go into an MRI and that there was a thing with the heart."
Aicha McKenzie:
And exactly.
Anne Muhlethaler:
And did I listen to my body at all of that throughout that time? I was trying, but I'd never known how to.
Aicha McKenzie:
Yes. And you also don't know it's important.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Yeah. So what happened next? How did you feel and what happened after you got out?
Aicha McKenzie:
Another funny story. I ended up getting out of the hospital because we essentially bribed the nurse with tickets to some big, fancy celebrity party.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Of course you did.
Aicha McKenzie:
And she was like, "Okay, if you pass this one thing," that I had to do, blood pressure or whatever else, she was like, "Okay, if you pass this one thing, then I'll mark it down and they'll discharge you." It's like, "Great. And you get to go to the party and we're all good." So that's how I got out, but they gave me a heart conditioned diagnosis and was like, "You need to go straight to the UK, straight into the hospital, and let them start your treatment." So I came back, went to the hospital, they did the test again, they were like, "There's nothing wrong with you. Nothing. We cannot see one single thing."
Aicha McKenzie:
So meanwhile, I'm in hospital for three days. I was having treatment even then for another five days while I was out there, I was on all this medication, and I get back a week later and they can't see anything, they there's literally nothing wrong with me. Right. Ah, okay. That's the thing I can recognize now, is of course, what is happening is it is real at the time. So when you feel like you're having a heart attack, it's because that's really... It's not that you're really having a heart attack, but the symptoms are the same, your heart palpitations, your heart racing, all the sweating, dizziness, dizzy spells, that's all happening and it can come and go as fast as your mind can process it. Of course, I didn't know that at the time, so that was 2012.
Aicha McKenzie:
So I went through back to normal, back to the racing around and all the rest of it. And then by 2018, I was literally thinking I was having these heart attacks all the time. I'm not connecting with things together because I haven't at still not diagnosed for myself, "What was that that happened then?" I was just like, "Okay. It was a thing that happened. I don't know. It's weird," but hey, not even thought about it. And so then I'm back on the heart monitor for a week and exactly doing an MRI, I'm convinced I've got heart disease, I'm convinced I'm dying. And my mom died when she was 53.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Really young.
Aicha McKenzie:
Yeah. Really young and I was 20. Her passing was just devastating in my life, devastating.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Of course.
Aicha McKenzie:
But thing on it now is that I'm 45 now and then I'm going, "Am I going to last where she got to and am I going to go continue and have a long life? And maybe not because you know, maybe I'm going to get sick." She actually died really peacefully in her sleep. She had a blood clot in her brain when I was probably about five and had brain surgery. And this surgery, it's like 95% you're not going to survive the surgery. She survived the surgery. She always spoke about having a really clear out of body experience and just being out and looking back at her body and seeing her best friend and the doctor and her self and going, "No, no I can't. It's not the time, I need to be there for the children." And she didn't let herself go and she always spoke of that.
Aicha McKenzie:
And when she did pass, it was really after a moment, it happened from one day to the next, so that operation gave her epilepsy. So she just had, I guess, it was peaceful, fit in the night that just took her out. So it was really sudden, it wasn't that she was ill, it wasn't that we had to go through this lead up to losing somebody. And so now, and especially with the heart thing, they're like, "Okay, well the tumor is a clot tumor. The clot is essentially cardiovascular, so anything that's going on with your heart could potentially be really dangerous and linked to what is in your family history." And so I'm freaking out, I'm like, "That's it. I'm not going to make it. I'm not going to make it. I'm not going to make it." And then my chest is, because my head's spinning out, and my chest is really tight, and I'm like, "You see? I'm going." Obviously totally convinced. And meanwhile, I'm running all these companies, I'm smashing out life. You would never tell that this was even a remote thing, the outside in looks really different.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Yikes.
Aicha McKenzie:
Yeah. It took me to hit the bottom with a combination of a lot of stuff to go, "Okay. We need to do things differently. And anyway, if this is a trigger for me, if this is something that is making me feel not safe, then I have to change things in order to feel safe, in order to protect my peace, in order to have things move through my system." I always speak about emotion, energy and emotion, have it move through me, so that they don't get stuck, so I don't end up with the clots, so I survive.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Yeah. You just reminded me. I don't know whether you've heard of trauma response and how animals respond to trauma. But one of the thing that's been studied is that when an animal gets attacked or is on the verge, on the brink of death, they often play dead. So everything's going to shut down, they collapse, and to the naked eye they look like they've passed away. And once the danger exits the surroundings, you'll see them get up and suddenly shape everything from head to toe.
Anne Muhlethaler:
And I heard there's a beautiful book out there by Emily and Amelia Nagoski, two sisters, called Burnout. And there are many fascinating therapists, psychotherapists, psychiatrists, and doctors that have been studying this. One of the ways that human beings have forgotten how to deal with strong emotion is that we can get rid of the energy and we need to learn how to, and so somatic response, experiencing and dance. And I don't know how many different kind of modalities are out there, but it's a really interesting thing for people to look into. And you just reminded me that I try to remind myself to shake regularly, because it's one of the things that you do you just-
Aicha McKenzie:
Exactly. Shake it out.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Shake it, literally shake it out.
Aicha McKenzie:
Yeah. And-
Anne Muhlethaler:
For people who are listening, thinking we're crazy, next time you have an argument with someone or you feel really frustrated, walk into the kitchen, close the door and let yourself shake uncontrollably for a minute. Check in with yourself and see the difference.
Aicha McKenzie:
It's a massive difference. That's why I said this thread actually is movement, the thread is movement. It's a vital, vital part of our practice to stay healthy. You've got to let the things move through. They've got to move, they've got to move on out.
Anne Muhlethaler:
But we're so good at a species at not letting go. Ugh. Or is it just me speaking for myself? I don't know.
Aicha McKenzie:
No, no, no, no, no. You're right there with everyone. I talk about it all the time when I'm like, "Exhale and let it go." And I'm like, I know it sounds easy and I know it's so hard, but that's why we have to practice it and you put it in everywhere. So of course it's not actually going to be, "Exhale and let go of all of the shit that you've been holding onto," but incrementally, yes, it does. You can have this intention and start moving things out. Just going layer, by layer, by layer, back into finding you, connecting with you. That is what it is, it's about the connection to yourself.
Anne Muhlethaler:
But what is essential below everything you're saying is first of all, recognizing, letting yourself see where you are without denial, which I see so many of us, me included at previous times, how can we let go of things we don't even realize we're holding onto?
Aicha McKenzie:
Exactly.
Anne Muhlethaler:
How can we let things move through when we pretend nothing's happened? I know a couple of people who are really, really good at compartmentalizing, and I'm very worried about what kind of life they're building for themselves.
Aicha McKenzie:
I was exactly that person. That's what I'm saying, there was some stuff that I had buried so deeply I didn't know that it existed. And I think actually as I was falling apart, I had fallen apart, I guess, and I did a meditation training. And so this meditation training started doing Vedic meditation twice a day, got super into my practice and started to become more aware. And that's just really general awareness [inaudible 00:30:39] everything. And as I started to let go, the space started to open and I was then suddenly confronted with, "Whoa, where was that?" And that's why that they say that the work is uncomfortable before [inaudible 00:31:02]. It's dark and it can be dark and it can be messy. And actually the thing is we all hold trauma, so it isn't that you are trying to pinpoint this big horrendous thing that happened in your past, we all experienced things in different ways, so things are not comparable.
Anne Muhlethaler:
I could not agree with you more. I always say you can't grade people's suffering.
Aicha McKenzie:
Exactly.
Anne Muhlethaler:
We can't compare ourselves and we just have to hold that knowledge that everyone will experience great loss and great difficulty in their own ways.
Aicha McKenzie:
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And that's it, as you start to allow yourself to slow down, you start to have... You're just giving yourself space for awareness. So busy, busy being busy, busy being distracted, distracted, distracted, distracted. Not trying to, "No, no. And let's not look at that. Let's not give ourself time to get into things," but it's so freeing, so much freedom on the other side, really.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Yeah. I don't know if you ever had a chance to study any philosophy, but when I was a high school, I studied a famous French philosopher called Blaise Pascal. And I only know the saying in French, but essentially one of his greatest contributions as a philosopher was to say that man cannot be alone with his thoughts and that's why man needs distraction. And obviously it's fascinating to look at Blaise Pascal now with a lens of mindfulness or with a lens of as a yoga teacher and someone who continuously studies, because I realize he was, among many others, he was ahead of his time. It's the hardest thing is for us to actually be with what is and letting it go. And somehow we're all running around pretending that's not actually our life's work, or part of our mission, let's say.
Aicha McKenzie:
Yeah. And he was definitely right with man. I think women are far better at it.
Anne Muhlethaler:
I think so too. I would think so too. But it's interesting because I'd like to tie this back with, when do you feel... Because earlier you mentioned that you were splitting yourself sideways, you were being all these different people, you were bringing out these different facets of yourself and not being yourself, so when do you feel you got to reconnect with that sense of self?
Aicha McKenzie:
Beginning of 2019.
Anne Muhlethaler:
And what was the process that sort of unlocked that connection?
Aicha McKenzie:
I went to Bali and did a training. It's not the point I was in Bali.
Anne Muhlethaler:
I get that. Do you know what I mean? I know what you mean.
Aicha McKenzie:
You know? "And I was sitting in the jungle."
Anne Muhlethaler:
No, it was the training.
Aicha McKenzie:
That wasn't it. Yes. I wanted to do, and it was funny, it was funny how it even arrived to me. So I wanted to do another yoga teacher training and I a had specific window that I could go in January and I wanted to find something that fit... I wanted to go somewhere far so that I wouldn't be distracted and I wouldn't be in life, because my first yoga training I did in London, I did it in London, I did it at Spring Studios.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Oh, that's a bit too close to home.
Aicha McKenzie:
It's so close to home. Anyone listening, Spring Studios is where we shot that famous hologram. And so I was like, "Yeah, okay. I need to do another training and go do it." And I had to fit into this window. And I was literally just Googling stuff. And up came this woman and she was talking and she just had these fabulous earrings on and she just looked amazing. I didn't really look very much into what she was teaching, but I was like, "Yeah, I'm going to go on your course.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Oh my that's crazy. Okay, keep going. I'll tell you my story after.
Aicha McKenzie:
And got on the plane and I literally signed onto the course [inaudible 00:35:11] maybe a week before, so I didn't do any of the reading or any of the stuff, just about got a book and I was like, "Oh, yin yoga, I don't even know what that is. Never even done it before, but whatever, that's what I'm going to go and study." So I found myself on this, it was yin and traditional Chinese medicine. And I've always worked a doctor who's worked on my body since I was 12, I believe, since my gymnastics days, is still my same doctor now. He works through, I can't even name, he's an osteopath, but he works with so many different modalities. He's also a herbal doctor, creates interest for me, and has done throughout my life. So I was always interested in that acupuncture, this kind of stuff. I had acupuncture to concede, that's another story.
Aicha McKenzie:
But off I went and I was on this course, and I don't really know what yin is, but then we will have a look at that and I started to go into the training. And I was like, "Oh, this is slow down. The whole circle of this is stillness, slowing down, and that is 100% what my life needs. And I have to radically change my life in order for the heart, in order..." And just the teachers were just wisdoms I'd hadn't even come close to. And so although I had done these trainings before and although I was qualified in so many different ways, just the essence of, but we need to find this stillness, I had missed totally. And yeah, over that time I had big, big breakthroughs, came back and was changed, fundamentally changed and went really deep into that space. And then of course the next year was locked down, so it was just a continuation of, "Oh yeah, this is..." It's again, it's that thing, you are absolutely where you're supposed to be at any given moment when you're okay with what is, [inaudible 00:37:24].
Anne Muhlethaler:
Absolutely. And not wanting to sound moo-hoo for those who are not yoga study inclined, but one of the ways that one of my teachers likes to say is, "Surrender to grace, surrender." Okay. "Be with what is and surrender, let go." Or, as Eckhart Tolle would say... Oh, what was the saying at the beginning of his book? "Resist nothing." That's the opener phrase and I'm just in the middle of reading his book, but it's so funny because he started that and I'm like, "Oh I have so much resistance in me," but yeah, just accepting that this is how we are and every day we get and every minute, we can learn to relax, release, accept, surrender.
Aicha McKenzie:
Well, because that's where suffering lies. Suffering is just the non-acceptance of what is. If you're not resisting it and it is what it is, there's nothing to be upset about, nothing to moan about nothing to... So it's just okay, because it is what it is and I'm not trying for it to be something different. Yeah. And so I started really on that journey and everything came, my practice totally changed and how I guided changed, it I didn't change, it just got back to being me, got back to being me. So it became really, with my heart, about authenticity and helping people, helping guide people back to their own. And it became about meeting yourself where you are at and moving at your own pace and not this idea of perfection that I had previously been striving to get to.
Anne Muhlethaler:
That's interesting, because that ties back with the gymnastics background in my mind.
Aicha McKenzie:
Yes. 100%.
Anne Muhlethaler:
And I listened to a couple of interviews of yours before drafting some of my questions. And so I heard you with that wonderful podcaster and fitness trainer, Adrienne, something, something. I can't remember her last name.
Aicha McKenzie:
Herbert.
Anne Muhlethaler:
But it was... Yes, exactly. And who I didn't realize, but was signed with your agency, which is such an amazing loop. But I remember about the concept of the Power Hour, you were describing your movement practice in the morning and you said that you were still trying to free yourself from the rigor and the precision or the perfection of following a specific kind of training, and letting yourself move. And that stuck with me because I know how old you were, of course, when you let that go, and so the arc feel... And you said just now you feel like you're letting this go.
Aicha McKenzie:
Yeah. It's funny because actually now my body is craving against some discipline in its training because I genuinely went, "Whoa, got to go away from this," to be able to come back over for sure. I'm getting aches and pains and things, which is because actually my muscles need some alignment and some strength and you can't just all because my back's... I have to look after an ancient gymnast body. So with all of the things, it does need to be trained, which I haven't done for years now because the practice has just been different, has been about slowing down, it's been about my breath and just moving as I feel. And that might be a kind of, if you want to label it, some kind of all force cat cow, which lends to a stretch and then me lying down for half an hour. And that's been the key to allow whatever my breath is giving me and guiding me into...
Aicha McKenzie:
Was funny, I spoke to Adrienne as soon as I'd got back from Bali. I think it was one of the first podcasts that I did when I got back, and I was different, that's really what there is to say. And we were talking about life and a business and all of the things and I really remember being at a quite straddled place because this strict discipline that you need to have, even the concept of the power hour, and I do wake early and I do start my day with ritual and that needs structure and discipline. But I was just moving really away from this thing, so I was just at the part of just being straddled in the two moments, not yet fully committed to the slowing down.
Anne Muhlethaler:
I hear you.
Aicha McKenzie:
Want to do it but I was like, "Yeah, no, but actually." Get Stuff done.
Anne Muhlethaler:
It's so interesting you should say that. So starting and not always going to your 100%, being with where you are at. There's a great saying that I remember someone saying to me, "Yoga will meet you where you are."
Aicha McKenzie:
Yes. Not where you want to be.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Exactly.
Aicha McKenzie:
Thank you. Practice is something that has different layers. But I think the one thing that is instrumental is that it becomes part of your every day. And the reason why I just love working with the breath is because it is about allowing that pause to exist, allowing yourself to literally take a breath. With yoga, there's never ending point to the pose, you're never going to get there. Actually, with the breath practice and especially with what I'm sharing, we're just learning a technique or techniques to be built into our life, to cope and feel good. And it's simple and it's this simplicity that we understand how powerful this simplicity is and how much of a difference it can make.
Aicha McKenzie:
I am absolutely blown away by our community. The little breathe gang, shout out to you if you are listening. But it's just such an incredible community of people who have changed their lives from doing a simple daily breathing practice. So I'm not doing deep dive work through this breath work not, not what I share on a daily, but it's the small, simple things that make such difference and it's the same with everything. And so while we're racing, hop, skipping and jumping, cartwheeling, back flipping, to find this best life that's over there somewhere that you're running to get to, you're just missing the power and the small magic.
Anne Muhlethaler:
So tell me about what kind of breath practice you studied and what can people learn with you if they join you live?
Aicha McKenzie:
So I studied the first, the first part that I studied, was essentially a comprehensive training, breath coach training. So it wasn't one particular style, so it isn't like it isn't Wim Hof or it isn't holotropic or a specific style like that, but I guide 21 different techniques. Each breath has a different use and there are techniques you do in the morning that are better for the morning, ones better for the evening, ones that are any time, ones that will energize you. And the program that I have, there are three essentially courses, balance, reset, and energize, from 30 day program, you have different techniques, and within that, video practices that you follow, journal prompts, music, everything is there for you to take your own journey with it. And then you have live classes as well, every Sunday.
Aicha McKenzie:
And I love that training in particular because you want to be able to grab hold of different things at different times. And yeah, this has given me and gives people a toolkit to grab what they need at the time. I've also then done breath work, circular breathing training, and I guess I would say it is deeper, stronger practice, and it can sometimes feel a little bit uncomfortable, in terms that sensations in your body, sensations in your hand, your jaw can get locked, you're breathing in and out through your mouth. Whereas the other practices that I'm really sharing on a day to day, it's breathing through your nose and the technique techniques that live in your life, rather than the practice that you go to do.
Aicha McKenzie:
But I really love that too and I love actually very much combining both things, so we'll set the nervous system in motion a bit. If we're going to do a circular breath, set it in motion and then go into really deep relaxation. The breathing practices, it's all working all parasympathetic nervous system, it's the system that's going, "Okay. It's okay. You can calm down. You can rest. Your cells can reproduce." This is on a cellular level doing the work. And people are out there and you're taking your supplements and you're doing all of these things, unless your cells are healthy and vibrating, nothing can move, it is not in flow. If your body's not in flow, then of course you are not in flow.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Yeah. We need oxygen.
Aicha McKenzie:
Exactly. It's as simple as that. And so that's what's quite mind blowing, why we don't have this education yet, we don't have an education around breath, and we don't have an education that it's just so important. And yet it's the one thing you can't live without. You cannot live without your breath for more than seconds.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Did you ever hear Russell Brand in conversation with this guy called James Nestor who wrote a book called Breath?
Aicha McKenzie:
Breath. Yes.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Yes. I can't listen to his podcast because it's beyond a pay wall for the UK only and I'm in Switzerland, but I heard the 15 minutes that was on Apple iTunes. And you know what I said, which I thought was so mind blowing and probably so right. You know why not everyone knows this right now and it's doing it everywhere? Because it's not something that can be commoditized and sold.
Aicha McKenzie:
Exactly.
Anne Muhlethaler:
So the only reason why we're not consuming and adept of breath the same way that we are your favorite brand of chips, chocolate, or soda, is because no one's selling it to us, essentially. And so I was wondering about this because I've been an adept of pranayama, so the yogic style of breathing for a while. I remember a time of crisis in my life where my coach who happens to be an ex-Buddhist monk as well, versed in a number of pranayama practices, and so he got me into what is called nadi shodhana, which is the alternate nostril breathing, which I think is the most effective way to diffuse tension and the quickest way to calm down my system. But recently I've been doing every day, a combination of different yogic breaths taught by a kundalini teacher. So I do every morning, it's 20 minutes.
Anne Muhlethaler:
And first, like you say, we trigger the sympathetic nervous system by doing breath of fire and then we cool it down and then we hamp it up again and then cool it down again. And you know what I thought was fascinating that I thought you'd enjoy, on a very simple physical level, if I meditate in my cross-legged seat, on the pillow that I bought that I like, looking at the view that I like, and sit in that position for 20 minutes, and I'm very, very flexible, so I don't need to stretch before I sit, within 15, 20 minutes, I'll start having pins and needles. If I sit and for the same amount of time, do breath work, there is no pins and needles, because simply, fluidly speaking, my blood is flowing differently than if I was sat.
Aicha McKenzie:
And it's oxygenated.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Exactly. And it's fascinating because I now will do everything I can to make sure I have at least 20 minutes of breath every morning because it actually just energetically changes even my mood. I am not the same person before and after.
Aicha McKenzie:
The amazing thing about it is, it's a hack, it's to hack straight into stillness if you want to be still, it's a hack straight into your energy, if you are like, "I got to get up and go and actually I have a couple of minutes." It allows you to just diffuse what is going on. And it allows you to bring something up too, I talk about this idea of this burning ember, this burning ember that we have inside ourself and we always have this energy. It's always there, even when we're feeling really low, it's always there. And just like with a fire, what you do to a fire, what you do to an ember, you blow on it, it needs the air, it needs the oxygen in order to spark in order to go. And that's really it, our bodies just need this and I love it. You've got your three hours and I'm like, "Yes, gel."
Aicha McKenzie:
10 minutes of breath, that's actually all you need to really make a scientific change, that's what they have proven. And so there isn't an excuse, when we talk about this barrier to people doing things, "I'm not going to go to yoga, then I've got to change. I've haven't got time, I've got to drive there, I've got a thing." All of the things it's like, okay, this is 10 minutes and if we're not finding 10 minutes in our life, we're doing life wrong.
Anne Muhlethaler:
I know. But you know what? I was thinking about this, I'm literally writing exactly about this today, so I'll send the email to you later. Because I'd listened to one of your interviews before I started reading the email, you said to Adrienne, the reason why you started fit AMCKFIT is because you know that when things start to accelerate, the first thing people drop is self-care, whatever self-care means to you. So man, woman, child, everybody's got different thing that they do, but that's what we drop because we have this conflict internally about, "What must I do first? What is the priority?" And my own experience was that throughout life it was drilled into me that work comes first, "Deliver work, be the best."
Anne Muhlethaler:
And it wasn't drilled into me in a mean way by my parents, so I don't feel like I'm traumatized around it, but it was shown to me that was the example. At least I wasn't in New York or in the U.S. in general, where they have this crazy work ethic that you have to be at your desk of 7:00 leave at 10:00, even if you're not productive, just to show that you're in the office. But for those of us who work really hard and who deliver throughout, we also just give too much out and forget that it has to start with the choices to look after ourselves first.
Aicha McKenzie:
Yes, absolutely.
Anne Muhlethaler:
So I heard you speak beautifully about how you went into management, having seen what bad management looked like and that you were already quite vocal when you were on set with people, and you quite like to go up and make things right when you saw things being done the wrong way. So I understand that you always had this idea of caring for people that were in the vicinity and particularly looking after the talent, the models, the dancers, the choreographers that you hired. I understand that you've moved into a more holistic style of management. Could you speak to me about that?
Aicha McKenzie:
Yeah. I think that it was always there, but we were also building. And so like you said, it's this idea of that is how things are. And so even though I was doing things differently, as much as I could and doing them differently internally, I was still having to bend, twist myself, into positions or into ways that people would find acceptable. In order to get a lot of the talent seen and definitely heard, I needed to do it in ways that felt palatable to what was already happening. And so that was our journey, it was a lot of like, "Well, we're going a little bit around the side door, but we've made it." And now it's like, "No, this is what we do. And this is how we do it. And actually if you don't like it, this whole, how we move is just not for you."
Aicha McKenzie:
And so it's now for the talent, for the culture, that is absolutely 100% how I'm moving now with everything. It trickles through every part of how we look after people. It's them first, how we look after the culture, how, what we represent, how other people are representing that. I take that, if briefs come in and they just feel offkey, it's like, "Hey, Come. No." And not only is it, "No, that we are not going to partake in it," I'm going to tell you about it so that you can change.
Aicha McKenzie:
And just for people to just really feel that they are looked after, that they've got a family, it's always been about that, but I think more than ever, I think it was really hard few years. Not I think, I know it was a really hard few years and for us to still be here on the other side of it is no mean feat. I don't take that lightly, but it's just made me more determined to make sure that I can always be there creating the path and holding the door open so that these incredible young people that we work with are in a space to do things how they want to do things, can see themselves, can inspire other people, and have that confidence and have the confidence to be able to go out there and know that we've got them and that we will look after them in every way that we can.
Aicha McKenzie:
And I've just started a legacy project now so that this, it's very much a commitment of what we want to do. I think we've made a massive, massive contribution and I don't want it to just go away or get somehow paved over when, if, I see if, let's hope this is not a when, if people decide that this is not a thing anymore. "Oh yeah. Okay. We've done with all that inclusivity and diversity. Yeah. It's not a thing." Just kind of, "No."
Anne Muhlethaler:
That sounds wonderful. I'm glad that you used the words, "Have the door open," because I feel like listening to you, reading about the work that your company has been doing and hearing some of the stories around the talent that you helped blossom. You've helped a lot of incredible people, including Adrienne that we were talking about before, who seems like such a talent and a joy to listen to, I was hearing you speak about FKA Twigs and so many others. Knowing that you've contributed so much to other people, is there any advice that you could offer to anyone who's perhaps struggling on their path towards a mode of creative self-expression?
Aicha McKenzie:
Yeah. Thing that is the most incredible gift that you have is the fact that you are like nobody else. And so all of the work, all of the work in its entirety, is about the connection to yourself. Because with that true connection to yourself, then comes out your you as your authentic self. And that's what people will be attracted to, will gravitate towards, not trying to be like somebody else, not trying to follow a certain path that somebody else has taken, everybody's journeys are totally different. So really honestly, there's just no point in looking right and left, because you're missing your own street, and on your street is going to be potholes and things that you're going to trip over and you're going to get blown along the way. And so it's important that your focus is forwards. I heard our incredible choreographer, Luam, saying the other day, "It's not only forwards, it's forwards and up." Right. I like that. It's like face the sun.
Anne Muhlethaler:
That's beautiful. Forwards and up.
Aicha McKenzie:
Forwards and up. Right.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Oh, that's amazing.
Aicha McKenzie:
So yeah, that's what I would say, stand there, look at yourself. Sometimes we go into a room and we're in an audition and dancers, I see them not really looking at themselves in the mirror, there is a disconnect. They can't even stand in the mirror and be with themself, so that's where the work is. It's not on the dance steps, who cares?
Anne Muhlethaler:
Oh, that's such a great metaphor in there, or a bunch of them. Wow. Thank you for sharing that. I feel like we're going to have to have a second conversation because I still want to ask you and talk to you about all the other things that were on that note sheet that I've prepared. Perhaps what I could first go towards, because the podcast is like me, at the crossroads between business and a practice of mindfulness, what are the things that you do for yourself as a woman, as a mother, and as a business owner, to feel more grounded and balanced and why has worked for you?
Aicha McKenzie:
This idea of balance, it's such an incredible question because actually we only know when we are in balance when we allow ourself to wobble. So it's definitely feeling all the feels, going with the highs, going with the lows, and then you have this sense of when it, "Okay, I'm good. I'm just feeling like I can cope with it all." It is a lot trying to do it all. And so of course you can't do it all all of the time. You have to prioritize some things and sometimes I'm prioritizing work, sometimes I'm prioritizing my children and my family, sometimes I'm prioritizing me, and that may be multiple times throughout one day. And so then I think of just trying not to get guilty, feel guilty, about neglecting any one point. Actually I have to say I'm really have got good at that, I have really got good at that, that's quite... Give myself a little pat on the back, because If I think on that, I'm like, "Oh yes, you haven't had that guilt thing for a long time," so that's good.
Aicha McKenzie:
And I used to, as we all do, I've stood backstage and suddenly just burst into tears. It's like, "Well, why are you crying?" I was like, "I just thought about my child. Hadn't thought about them in the past 48 hours, I literally just remembered I had a child. Oh my God, what an awful evil mother I am, clearly the pits because I didn't even remember that I had a child."
Anne Muhlethaler:
There you go. That's the entrepreneur. Yeah. And the dancer and the choreographer and the... I was joking with one of my collaborators that we all have a multitude of personalities and beings inside of us. And we just need to remember to let them talk to each other, make sure we give each other time, and not let them just be in conflict, yelling at each other.
Aicha McKenzie:
Yes, yes, yes.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Yeah. Thank you, I appreciate that. Knowing how to allow yourself to have different priorities at different times of the day.
Aicha McKenzie:
And not worry that they don't make sense. We just spend a lot of time beating ourselves up about things because there is some ideal, what we think is an ideal or a should, or it should look like some way, and that isn't the case. You just do you, you do it how you want to do it. And so whatever works for you in the way that it works for you, then that's the right way. No one really can tell you anything different because it's your journey and it's your path and it's going to feel right to you. And really it feels right to you, then what does it matter?
Anne Muhlethaler:
Thank you.
Aicha McKenzie:
A great chat.
Anne Muhlethaler:
All right. So this is one of my favorite questions, because it's quite complicated for most people. So I've changed it a little bit. Initially it was, what's your favorite word? What is your favorite word? One that you could tattoo on yourself, hypothetically, for a period of time, what is a word that you could live with on your skin?
Aicha McKenzie:
Well, Anne, obviously it's going to have to be breathe.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Oh it could have been movement, sorry, or emotion.
Aicha McKenzie:
No. So it's breathe because breathe to me also spells the whole story, balance, reset, energize, activate, transform, heal, exhale. That's the circle, that's the cycle, it's such a reminder for so many things for me, so I could have breathe. I have got no tattoos and I'm not planning on getting any.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Not suggesting you would.
Aicha McKenzie:
[inaudible 01:04:43].
Anne Muhlethaler:
That's awesome. Now this next one is even harder for most people. What song best represents you?
Aicha McKenzie:
Sounds of Blackness, Optimistic.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Oh, that's such a good one. What is a secret superpower that you have?
Aicha McKenzie:
It's not very secret, but my breath.
Anne Muhlethaler:
What is your favorite sound?
Aicha McKenzie:
I like so many sounds. I love the sound of the water. I love the sound of bird song. I love the sound of om.
Anne Muhlethaler:
These are great ones. I'm not loving the sound of... There's a pigeon cooing outside my window and I keep on muting my microphone because it's like, I'm not going to feed you, stop calling me. What is a favorite book that you can share with us?
Aicha McKenzie:
I'm going to say The Body Keeps the Score. I think that was seminal for me.
Anne Muhlethaler:
And where is someone that you visited that you feel had a real impact on who you are today?
Aicha McKenzie:
Ibiza.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Oh really?
Aicha McKenzie:
I remember when I first went, think it was 19. I always find this funny because we bought the holiday on Teletext because this was pre-internet.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Oh my God. That's hilarious.
Aicha McKenzie:
I'm ancient. And so we bought the holiday on Teletext and it was an 18 to 30s trip to San Antonio and we got there and we were like, "What is this horrendous place? Get me off this island." We were back at the travel agent trying to get off of Ibiza. "What is this place? Why is everybody talk about it? This is so awful. I've never seen anything. I want to leave me." And me and my friend were like, "We want to leave. Okay. So where else could we go?" And then we somehow walked around a corner and then I bumped into a friend and then we just got taken off into this island and it was obviously just, it was my spirit, it was my spirit all in once. And then the clubs and me dancing. I was a podium dancer. I started off as a club dancer
Anne Muhlethaler:
Oh, I didn't know.
Aicha McKenzie:
Yeah. In London. So I was dancing on podium in nightclubs in London when I was 15. And so in Ibiza with the music and these clubs and the way I would dance and it was just all so free. I was like, "Yeah, this place."
Anne Muhlethaler:
That's awesome. Here's my favorite question of all. What brings you happiness?
Aicha McKenzie:
Oh, do you know what? Myself. I'm just feeling quite content with myself. Lots of things bring me happiness, Yeah, of course, I love to dance, I love music. I love the sunshine, being on the beach, my family, my friends, all these things, but I'm also really just happy with being on my own. I can mooch around, I love being in my house on my own, and it's a rarity and I love it. I love it when I'm just here, home alone. I love it.
Anne Muhlethaler:
That sounds like such a gift. Thank you so much for sharing. Aicha, thank you so much for all your time. It was such an enlightening, personal and just deeply enriching conversation for me.
Aicha McKenzie:
It was great. It was lovely, lovely, lovely, and what a connection. I said to Paolo this morning, I was like, "I'm going to do podcast today with Anne. He was like, "Anne, who?" I was like, "You remember Anne Muhlethaler." He was like, "What? What's it on? Shoes? No, she's not done that for ages, it's on mindfulness." He was like, "Oh my God, all of you, you're off doing..." I said, "Yeah, exactly." We all think. "Okay, there's another way."
Anne Muhlethaler:
That doesn't mean I don't love my shoes. I just don't feel like I need to have conversations about them anymore. It's also less fun for people because they can't see my feet in the podcast. So what can I say? Although I still take good shoefies on Instagram,
Aicha McKenzie:
Of course.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Thank you so much for everything. So if people would like to follow you and discover your work or perhaps find out more about your company and about Breathe, where can they find you?
Aicha McKenzie:
Absolutely. Well, my Instagram is Aicha McKenzie, A-I-C-H-A-M-C-K-E-N-Z-I-E, just straight up like that. The breathe it and program workshop, Sunday classes, events, and of course the breath mist, which is our essential oil blend that goes together with your breath work practice, it's really beautiful. That can all be found at BreatheByAMCK, same website and the social media. And our agency and my wonderful talent is all under AMCK, so AMCK Dots, AMCK Models and AMCK.io, which is our newest adventure into a web three space.
Anne Muhlethaler:
That's really exciting. Okay. That's for another conversation next time.
Aicha McKenzie:
Yes.
Anne Muhlethaler:
So I can also spend some time discovering it too, because it sounds really cool. Aicha, thank you for everything. And hopefully we get to connect again soon and perhaps even in person.
Aicha McKenzie:
I would love that. I would definitely love that.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Either dancing or near a beach would be in my ideal future.
Aicha McKenzie:
Dancing on a beach, that's what we will do. And thank you so much. It's just been such a lovely morning to spend with you. Thank you.
Anne Muhlethaler:
Thank you so much. Thanks again to Aicha for being my guest on the show today. As always you can find the relevant lengths of what we talked about in the show notes. So friends and listeners, thanks again for joining me. If you'd like to hear more, you can subscribe to the show on whatever is your preferred platform. And if you want to connect, get in touch with me @annvi on Twitter, Anne Muhlethaler on LinkedIn, and @_outoftheclouds on Instagram where I also share daily musings about mindfulness. You can find all episodes of the podcast and more as well on annevmuhlethaler.com, if you don't know how to spell it's also in the show notes. And to get regular news in your inbox, I invite you to subscribe to my monthly newsletter. So that's it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening to Out Of The Clouds and I hope that you will join me again next time. Until then, be well, be safe and take care.