In this episode of Out of the Clouds, Anne V. Mühlethaler welcomes artist and creator Lucia Dami for a deep dive into her creative journey, the exploration of archetypes, and her connection to the divine feminine. Lucia, a Geneva-raised artist now based in London, has been described by Surface magazine as “a visionary creator who channels the mystery and fluidity of the feminine into evocative works of art.” Her unique approach blends symbolism, spirituality, and storytelling to create a profound resonance with her audience.
Lucia’s work, including her highly sought-after sacred portrayals and sacred avatar commissions, allows women to see themselves reflected through a lens of empowerment and magic. Her art is not only visually striking but serves as a healing practice, honouring the fluidity and depth of the feminine.
Lucia and Anne were put in touch by their friend, the artist Julia Astok, and synchronicity was at play when Julia came to meet Anne in Geneva for one of her salons. This coincided with the dates when Lucia wanted to get her new tarot deck, the Elysian Tarot, photographed, for its Kickstarter campaign.
Together, Anne and Lucia discuss the origins and creation of The Elysian Tarot, starting with Lucia’s meet cute with Tarot. She explains how the project is both a personal odyssey and a tool for self-discovery. Lucia shares how a health crisis got her to reconnect with her body, spirit, and creative essence. Anne asks Lucia to talk about the role of Jungian archetypes in her workshops, and how the divine feminine in all its form become a guide to women throughout their lives.
The end the conversation on Lucia's understanding of the transformative power of creativity as a bridge between the unseen and the seen.
Selected links from episode
Book a tarot reading with Lucia Dami
Sacred avatar process (with combined reading)
Helen O’Neil on the Working Hard, Hardly Working
Lana Del Rey Dark Paradise
The book of Symbols by Taschen
00:04
Hi, hello, bonjour and namaste. This is Out of the Clouds, a podcast at the crossroads between business and mindfulness. Or, I also like to say it's about living with intention, and I'm your host, Anne Muhlethaler. It's lovely to be back here. I am delighted to be recording again after a short break. I've been off the air for a few weeks and I have a gorgeous new interview for you, and I'm delighted to be introducing you to a wonderful artist called Lucia Dami. So Lucia and I had the pleasure of being introduced by a common friend, the wonderfully talented and I'm touching my heart as I'm saying this the warm-hearted Julia Astok, and I feel like synchronicity really triangulated our connection, and you'll hear about the details over the course of this episode. So that's how I came to hear about her and discover the work that she does as an illustrator, as an artist and as a tarot reader. So Lucia actually grew up in my hometown of Geneva. She's now based in London.
01:25
She has been described by Surface Magazine as a visionary creator who channels the mystery and the fluidity of the feminine into educative works of art. They also talk about how her approach is so unique in blending symbolism, spirituality and storytelling to create a profound resonance with her audience, and let me tell you, I myself, as an audience, I was definitely captivated. So, over the course of our conversation, Lucia and I discuss her meet-cute with tarot. We talk about the origins and the creation of her brand new Elysian tarot deck. We also talk in depth about how a health crisis a few years ago, essentially a catalytic event, invited her to connect, or rather reconnect, with her body, her spirit and her creative essence her spirit and her creative essence. We also dive deep into the role of Jungian archetypes and how she uses those in workshops, how they guide her and her feminine essence, both in art and in life, and also how we can bring them into our lives and explore them for ourselves, either through the sacred avatars or the workshops that she offers on the divine feminine.
02:51
Lucia also tells me about her views on the transformative power of creativity as a bridge between the unseen and the seen. Lucia's work includes her highly sought-after sacred portrayals and sacred avatar commissions that allow women to see themselves reflected through a lens of symbolism, celestial magic and empowerment, and so I'm really excited to be introducing you to this wonderful, to be introducing you to this wonderful thoughtful, creative force and to discover her story. So, without further ado, I give you my interview with Lucia Dami. Happy listening, Lucia. It's lovely to see you, and welcome to Out of the Clouds. Thank you, it's my pleasure to be here.
03:47
So, as you may already know, I love to start the conversation with each of my guests with asking them to tell me their story, and the reason why I like to lean into this is, first, I'm a story nerd, but also I like to get a fuller picture and get a sense of who you were as a kid or as a teenager, what you wanted to be when you were a little girl and anything else, anything else that you feel is relevant to tell the story of, let's say, the journey of your life so far.
04:17
Yeah, of course. So I was born in the UK and the first year of my life my parents moved around a lot. So we went to Spain, we went to Switzerland, came back to the UK, then eventually settled in Geneva, which I know is where you live. So that's a funny connection that we have. It is a funny connection that we have.
04:41
Yes, we moved to Geneva and that's where I grew up, from the age of about three until I was 18 or 19, and then I moved to London. But during those years, ever since I was a kid, I've always been very creative. I was always drawing, always very introverted. I think I was also quite a serious kid. I loved to play and I did live in my imaginary worlds, but I took my passions very seriously. So one thing that I was really passionate about was poetry, and so when I learned to read and I could memorize poems, I would make my family sit down and listen to me recite the poems. Oh my God, that's gorgeous.
05:29
So when I was five, my younger sister was born and she, it, was the complete opposite to me. I was very introverted, quiet, very shy. My mom says that the first three months of me starting, like preschool, I didn't speak to anybody and the teachers were really worried about me. So I was that kind of child. And then my sister was born and she'd always been this firecracker, super expressive, doesn't think before she says things was very loud and she was like this savage little baby and I remember I would include her in my performances when she was old enough to be following all my orders and I would get really frustrated with her because I had a certain plan for how we were supposed to act and say the things and do the dance and she would just take over and do her natural comedy and I would get very, very upset. But also I think I was a bit envious of her natural kind of self-expression that wasn't thought through.
06:31
So I always had my creativity in that kind of way I don't know if the word is serious, but it felt like I took it seriously and I was always playing in the garden, I was climbing trees, believed in fairies and all the imaginary things.
06:46
That's very much thanks to my grandfather, because he loved to instill these beliefs in me, believing in dragons and fairies and the bears and the wolves in the forest, and so I'm very grateful for him.
06:58
He had a huge impact on me, yeah, and I think I held onto that throughout my teenage years and into adulthood, which I'm I don't know what I could put it down to, because I know that's not something that is easy for a lot of people to hold on to their creativity and their childhood imagination, but I did, and that came with its challenges, which I think a lot of sensitive, creative people can relate to is when you're highly sensitive and in touch with these unseen imaginary realms and you're also very introverted. When you get to a certain age, especially as a girl in your teenage years, it can lead into some darkness, which it did for me, but I think that was a blessing in disguise in the end. Why would you say that? Why would I say that it was a blessing in disguise in the end? Why would you say that? Why would I say that it was a blessing?
07:49
Let me rephrase this In what way was this a blessing?
07:55
In my case, it accelerated my connection to my spirituality. Again, I don't know what I could put that down to because I don't think I did anything specific that down to, because I don't think I did anything specific for it to turn out that way for me, but I think I was receptive to it and I think probably from the ages of 15 to 18, everything was in the extremes. So I was in the extremes of my internal darkness and yet yet I was witnessing these deep spiritual awakenings that were not coming from anybody or anything outside of me, showing me the way it was. It was just. I think I was receptive to it and it was extremely confusing, but it's the only thing that let me out of that darkness and also strengthened my connection to myself, my creativity it's. There was a lot that happened in those three years. How did you?
08:49
express your creativity around that time or how would it?
08:53
so? Yeah, so the thing that was causing me the most anxiety during those years was that I didn't the. I felt like everyone knew who they were. I felt like everyone could describe themselves and could label themselves and had this one style that they what you could put them, you could label. Oh yeah, this is their style, that's who they are. They have the same handwriting every day, the same kind of way that they talk and walk, and everyone seems to be showing up consistently with an identity. And I feel like I don't have that. I feel like I'm all these polarities. And it was really driving me crazy because I wanted to feel confident in who I was.
09:31
And I remember my art teacher one day said if you want to be a good artist, you have to know who you are. And that was like the final straw for me, because I had just going through this turmoil to figure out who I was. Nothing was working. Every day I was going round and round in my head trying to label myself, trying to find the style that fit me, even like I said silly things, like my handwriting was changing every day. Why can't I just have one handwriting style?
09:59
When he said that something in me just flipped and was like, ok, I can't actually do this anymore. I can't keep going down this path of trying to figure out who I am. What if I go the opposite way? What if I accept that actually it's impossible to know who I am? And what happens then? And from that point my art just became this exploration of that mystery and of building this relationship with that unknown. And what was really beautiful about that approach is that every time I finished an artwork I was seeing myself, but not in a way that I could describe or label in the way that I wanted to before with my anxiety, but more it was like looking in a mirror at something unknown but that resonated energetically, emotionally. I was like, yes, there's something there, there's something there of me, and so a lot of my art, actually all of my art during those years, was coming from that space. That sounds wonderful.
11:09
I stayed with that story that you were explaining, that leaning in on the multiplicities and it's interesting as you describe your handwriting because I'm someone who's always had from day to day can look like it's a whole different person, right. There are days when I look at it I'm like what's up with that?
11:29
And most of the time.
11:30
I don't think about it because it's true we we spend a lot of times now with a computer, but there always was that very real in your face kind of example of we are multitudes.
11:47
Yes, we are, we are. And on a side note about handwriting, there is a whole school of thought that thinks you can decipher a someone's personality through their handwriting. I don't know if you've ever seen that and how about it? The way that they do their j, or the way that you do your f, or your dot your I can say all these things about you.
12:08
I've never tried to go down that rabbit hole, but I do have a great passion for calligraphy. It's something that I find endlessly amazing, and when I do catch it on Instagram or threads, I could watch it for hours. It's pretty satisfying.
12:24
It's stunning, I, I know it's so satisfying to watch the way the ink falls off of the pen the fountain pen, yeah, but funnily enough now that I think of it, because that the study of handwriting that was one of my obsessions during this time as well, and I think I do have quite an obsessive personality when I'm interested in something, I go all the way in, and I think that part of me that was very curious about discovering I don't know what it was, the truth of something, or being able to understand something, is probably what led me also to tarot, which is now a big, huge part of my life, because tarot is like this symbolic language that you can decipher and decode to understand these complex things and make it simple.
13:13
So I think that also started during that time. This, that moment where I turned away from trying to understand myself and who I was and the world, and then turning towards that mystery and saying, okay, let me just go this way instead and see if it turns out any better for me, was was where I started to, yeah, get in touch with these different symbolic languages, these different ways of understanding things that were not just about fitting something into a box.
13:46
Yeah, that's really interesting. If you are curious and you want to understand the world around you, there are so many different ways you can try to approach it. I remember my parents had a pretty good library in the house and I started reading Freud because it was there on the shelf. I wanted to delight stuff like the interpretation of dreams and some of his early work, especially when he was doing hypnosis and stuff like that.
14:20
I guess you reach for what is near you or available to you or that you respond to, to try and make sense of the world around you and yourself, like you said. So you were in Geneva until your late teens, and what happened next?
14:40
Then I went to university in London. I decided to study art because, as I said, I've been created my whole life and I'm lucky that I held on to it, and I think also that has to do with my family being supportive of me going down that path know that there was any other way to succeed in art than going down the university route. That's what I did. I came to London. I got into Goldsmiths, which is an amazing university for art. However, the moment I got there, I realized very quickly that I probably wouldn't stay, and that was a really confusing moment for me because I had been so excited and so drawn to moving here for that particular course and it felt like it was really meant for me. So to have this intuition I don't think I'm going to stay here was very confusing, and there is a part of me that also, growing up, I quit things very easily. So I would start a sport or I would start an activity and I wouldn't finish it. As soon as I lost interest or motivation, I wouldn't continue, and so when I had that thought of I don't think I'm going to finish this, it really worried me. I was like this piece of my personality cannot sabotage this big of a thing in my life. That's how it felt. It felt like a huge moment. University is really important. That's what you're taught, and so when I had that moment of, yeah, I don't think I'm going to stay, I don't think I'm going to finish this, I shoved it aside.
16:13
I stayed for a few months and then, the more I was there, the more I realized that I was so inspired by all the change that was happening around me.
16:19
I was so inspired by being in London and all the things that I was experiencing that I wanted to create my own art, and at university they were giving me assignments that were not in alignment with what I was inspired to do, and so then I wasn't doing those assignments because I wasn't inspired and I wasn't making my art because I felt guilty about making art instead of doing the assignments.
16:40
So it was just a huge block and I realized that if I forced myself to continue university, I would be very unhappy, and more than being unhappy, I just felt like I wouldn't do it properly and I would get bad grades or the average grade, doing things with half a heart because I wasn't really interested, because I just know myself well enough to be like I know that I'm not going to try and for spending money on this for three years and for spending time and everything that goes into university, it's not worth it. It's not worth it for me just to try halfheartedly and just get by. So I decided to quit and put on my own exhibition. I wanted to prove to myself that I could finish something and that I was serious about my creativity. So I was like, okay, if I can see this to completion, if I can put on an exhibition here in London, then I know that it's not just me, that I'm not just going to quit at every thing that I commit to.
17:39
Sure you were building that muscle of self-stress. Exactly this was also you saying I'm following my intuition. Let me prove my intuition right as well.
17:49
Yeah, yeah, that was definitely a part of that, and so that's what I did, and I got a job in a shop here in London and everything happened very serendipitously for me to be able to put on this exhibition. I met the right people. I ended up not having to pay for a gallery space because it just so happened that there was a cafe nearby that was also a photography gallery and they were just opening and they were looking for someone to put art on their walls. As they opened and my friend walked by, told the owner about me, I met with him and in the end, I had my art there for six months I think even more, six months to a year and I had a little opening. I didn't have to pay anything for the space. It was just an agreement of they take 50% if anything is sold, but my intention wasn't even to sell anything, it was just to see this through and I really loved London.
18:46
However, I wasn't rooted at that time. I wanted to stay, but I didn't have. I was still in university dorms until summer of 2017. And then I wanted to stay, which meant finding my own place, but I didn't have that yet. So I moved back to Geneva with the intention to find a place and then move back to London, which I did, moved back to London.
19:05
The place I was in was very unstable. I had some unstable flatmates that can happen. They were fine. They were just a bit crazy and I didn't really have a solid kind of social life and I didn't know what I was doing with my career. So I was working in cafes and shops to make enough money to live here, but the city was swallowing me up and I was just refusing. I was very stubborn, I wanted to stay.
19:30
So I didn't listen to all of these signs that I was not coping very well and that was the beginning of my journey with the divine feminine, as I call it now, because at that time my menstrual cycle was completely out of balance and I was experiencing a lot of symptoms that were really huge red flags. But I, as I said, I was very stubborn about being in London, and also London is a place that is very stimulating. So there are so many outside things that are drawing your attention all the time that to actually pay attention to your inner state of being takes a lot of practice, and I didn't know that at the time because I didn't have a strong connection with my inner state of being. I didn't even know it was important specifically within the body, even if because I had a very strong connection to my imagination, to my emotions, when it came to my body, not at all. And so I was experiencing these symptoms.
20:35
I ended up going to the doctor because I was like you know what, something is wrong. And actually what really got me kind of the alarms going off in my head was that there was a point where I just felt like I would see myself in the mirror and there was no light in my eyes. It was like like my spark had just gone. Wow, because you have with hormones, like you have all these physical symptoms, but it really affects your emotional state of being and your mental state of being as well. And I was. Yeah, I just felt like I was a ghost and I was like something is wrong. But really it was also the physical symptoms.
21:16
Anyway, I went to the doctor and said like okay, we need to do an ultrasound to see what's going on down there. And I remember the nurses. They were like moving the thing over my belly and they were doing all this typing on the screen and there were two of them looking at the screen. I could tell something was wrong, but I know they weren't giving me any information. And I said they were like okay, you're all good, you can go now. And they said, oh, can you tell me what's going on? And they said no, we can't tell you. You have to wait to get a call from the doctor, said no, we can't tell you, you have to wait to get a call from the doctor. And I was like can you please just give me anything? What's going on with me? And they said, no, don't worry, if there's something wrong, the doctor will call you. And I was like, okay, so I went home and then the next day the doctor called me and he said yeah, so we found that you have an ovarian cyst.
22:05
I didn't know what that was at the time. He explained I said okay, I thought it doesn't sound so bad. He was saying like it's nothing bad, something dangerous. And then he said but it is 14, something in terms of size. And I thought he'd said some kind of medical measurement system number. And I was looking at my ruler and I was looking at the millimeters, like 14 millimeters no, that's quite big, it must be even smaller. So I said oh, what did you say? 14, what? And he said 14 centimeters. And I was there at my desk looking at my ruler, looking at 14 centimeters, looking down at my belly, looking at 14 centimeters, looking down at my belly, like and you know. Then he went on to say, look, we think you should get operated because that's quite a risk. If you, especially if you move around and do any sports, it can burst, it can be very painful, you can get an infection, all of these horrible things.
22:58
And I just froze. I froze. I had so many questions. I was so confused at how I had missed that. I felt really sad for my body. I felt really sad for all the signs that I just ignored.
23:14
And then also, at the same time, everything started to make sense for how I was feeling, especially when I started to research ovarian cysts and all these symptoms that I was having. And there was a lot being said about when your body runs on adrenaline. And when your body runs on adrenaline and you're stressed and you don't manage your stress, then your body finds ways of kind of processing all the toxins and all of this inflammation in different ways. If you're not resting. It can't do that properly. And I was thinking about my general state of being and I realized that I was living in a constant state of heightened adrenaline because my body was just trying to cope with all of this new environment that I was in, this new journey, that I was on the stress of living in central London. There's always noise, especially coming from Geneva. That's so quiet and it has such connection to nature and it's slow and everything's on time for your nervous system. It's like a perfect place. Everything is predictable. And here there's loud noises, there's so many people, everything is fast paced.
24:20
And yeah, and I realized I had been so disconnected from my body that mentally I felt like I was doing great, but my physical being was really having a hard time coping and I wasn't taking care of that. So from there my mom came to London to get me and we went back to Geneva to get a second opinion Again. Over there I was very dramatic you need to get operated right now. This is very dangerous. You have to get operated tomorrow. Basically, and I said no because at that point I was doing a lot of reading about ovarian cysts, about the hormonal cycle around hormonal imbalances in women, pcos, endometriosis, all of these things.
25:09
And I was reading from the point of view of women who had healed themselves and not from the point of view of what the medical system says about this. And so I realized that there is another way to resolve this. It doesn't have to be as dramatic as the doctors have said, and I chose to do one month of acupuncture and like an intense Chinese medicine regime, and that was extremely helpful. At this point in time, the doctors in Geneva had found a few other cysts on my ovaries as well, smaller ones, and what the acupuncture did was it shrinked those ones, but the large one didn't go away and I was super anemic by the end of that month. So I decided to do the operation.
25:55
But at that point I felt very confident in my decision because I felt like I had learned what I needed to learn.
26:01
I felt like I had gathered the information that I needed to gather. I had learned from my mistake. I made a commitment to surgery or not, have a stronger relationship with my body, nourish it. I also learned from the Chinese medicine practice about inflammation and how you can reduce inflammation, about the role that other organs play in everything. So that period was this huge awakening for me around what it meant to be in the body of a woman and how to take care of yourself as a woman, what it means to have a reproductive system as a woman and how much impact that has on your life as a woman. Wow, yeah, wow, yeah. So it was a huge turning point and I and then I was still making art for healing all throughout that point, but now my art was being made specifically to heal, um, my femininity. But I wouldn't have described it as that way at that time. Now I can say in hindsight that's what I was doing.
27:03
what would you have described it as in the around that time? Now I can say in hindsight that's what I was doing. What would you have described it as at around that time?
27:08
I was just drawing the female figure in empowering ways and that felt good and that's what I was doing, and I was drawing it in a way that connected the female body to the cosmos, to spirit and to all these different symbols of the stars and unseen, and that felt. That's what felt good at that time I but in hindsight it was deeper than that. It was very connected to that process I was going through with regards to landing back in my body and discovering that part of me.
27:45
It speaks to me so much when you say that, because there's a lot to say about what you just said. I mean, the first thing is, as you describe where this journey took you in terms of the pieces that I've discovered from you. They really speak to me and it's true that there's elements of magic. There's definitely a goddess. You seem to have discovered your own sort of what's the word. It's almost as if you took from a lot of myths and sources of inspiration and then you just put them out there with your own personal touch. I do think that there's something very healing about it and the celestial element and it resonates with me very deeply.
28:37
But on a more practical basis, before we get on any further, because a couple of days ago I was actually on the phone to a friend of mine after she texted me saying, oh, I'm good, I just had an operation, and I was like what it's like a? What operation? And she went yeah, there was a thing here and a thing here, and so we had a really big conversation about what doctors do recommend and when, and I have a lot of gripe with that. So I'm not going to speak from that place. It's not okay for our listeners, but I'd love to hear from you If you could travel back in time and be a little voice in the head of your earlier self as she started experiencing the symptoms. What would you tell her to do? Or how would you tell her to listen?
29:32
Yeah, it's a funny question because I feel like there are some things that the only way that you end up listening is through crisis, right, but I think if I could go back to myself at 14, 15, when I when the age when you first going into puberty and all these changes happening as a girl, I wish I could educate her better than what she was being taught at school in sex ed and in biology. This is like your menstrual cycle. This is the graph, this is the data, these are the hormones and that's it. And the way that, at that age, these negative symptoms that so many of us have are normalized as just part of life as a woman. Right, and I, because when this all happened, I remember feeling so much anger. I was so angry that I didn't know all this information that I was only just realizing because of what I was going through and how common it was, and reading about all these stories from women who go to the doctor and the doctor says, oh, yeah, just take the pill. Or oh, we don't know what's wrong with you, just take this.
30:47
And even me, when I had my checkup after the surgery that I did go into to remove the big assist, I had this follow-up appointment and I was really excited to hear about the cause. What happened? Right, because they were like, no, you don't have PCOS, you don't have any of these things. I'm like, how did this happen then? Educate me, because I was also very interested now from all the books that I was reading about the body inflammation, adrenaline, stress, all of these things. I was really excited.
31:16
As it is so often with doctors, I waited in the waiting room for an hour, with all the delays, and I sit in there. I think the meeting must have lasted like three minutes. I sit down, he goes do you want to see the photos? And I was like, no, I don't want to see the pictures. Thank you, I want to know what caused this. And I was really curious and he's like, oh, we don't know. It's almost like oh, very dismissive, like well, that's a. And he's like, oh, we don't know, it's almost like oh, very dismissive, like well, that's a silly question. He was like, listen, at least it probably won't happen again, don't worry. And I was like that's it, really, that's it.
31:51
I left so gutted and I was yeah, I was very angry at that time because of the lack of education that I had, and I was angry for my mother who didn't know any better herself. I was angry for my grandmother, who was never taught these things. I was angry for all the women. And so I would go back and I would give my younger self some books and I would tell her about all the things that I was learning from Chinese medicine and these alternative roots and herbalism and the kind of witchier side which I know she would have loved. I think she may have been. I think my younger self would have been receptive to that and that's what I would have done.
32:30
I'm so glad you answered that and I hope that every person who listens to this conversation please passes this on to someone who's got 13 or 14 or 15 year old girl and make sure that they listen to this. I could not agree with you more and I don't want to go into my own story, but let me say I could not agree with you more. We need more education around women's fertility, women's health and women's hormones, and the fact that there's so little available and so few academic studies and programs dedicated to this is, honestly, an absolute shame. I think I quoted to you or, if I didn't tell you, I told my friend Christina.
33:13
The other day I heard a great interview from a doctor based in London. You should check her out. She's amazing. Her name is Helen O'Neill. She has a company called Hurtility. Oh, I think I've heard of her and she said she was semi-joking, but that actually makes me want to cry every time I say it. She said if we can put men on the moon, we can figure out women's hormones. Oh, my goodness. But now the question is why is no one doing it Exactly? That's my goodness. But now the question is why is no one doing it Exactly? That's my question.
33:42
You know what I will say on a more hopeful note. There is so much more information coming out now and there are so many more studies being done now, and there are women talking about these taboo subjects. Even the menopause is being spoken about a lot more, which is amazing, and so that is a hopeful part of this journey right now, Well, that, and, of course, the divine feminine journey that it's taken you on.
34:10
Yes, yes, and that's why, in the end, I think, I had to go through this crisis, really, because it not only meant a lot for me with regards to my journey with my body, which I'm still on I'm not. I'm nowhere near where I want to be. I think it's a journey that takes time and is unique for each of us. But, yeah, not only did it foster that connection for me, it also meant that I was creating a lot more art based on my femininity, and I was from an early age, already before this period, sharing my art on Instagram.
34:46
Instagram was like my little visual diary, so I continued to do that throughout this period and it was very interesting because I was drawing from this place of the depths, from within me, of trying to connect with that aspect of me from a very deep and true part, and also, like I said, in connection with spirit, and more and more women over time, were resonating with the figures that I was drawing, as if I was drawing them, and that was a very frequent comment I would get I oh, I feel like you're drawing me, I really see myself in your art, and often they were grateful because they didn't feel seen otherwise, not in the way that I was drawing them, so to speak, or myself, if that makes sense, it does.
35:34
It really does, which was very interesting, because I also realized at that time that I didn't feel that it was easy to express myself in the way that I wanted to be received, which I think actually a lot of people can resonate with. It's very difficult to feel like you have this internal idea of yourself and the ideal of how you would like to be seen by others, but then translating that is very awkward and clumsy sometimes.
36:03
It's funny to say that because I literally have a program called the Story of you which is just about doing that. Really how interesting. And of course, I need to do it myself because it's very hard.
36:14
It is. It is, but I think also we just think about it too much, we put too much importance to it sometimes. However, it is very important, especially for women, at least for people who feel very feminine, because the feminine essence is very subtle. It's not very objective or forceful or defined. It's very kind of fluid, like water mist, and so it's hard to feel seen for that part of ourselves. And I started to recognize that not only did these women feel that way, but actually I felt that way, and that's why for so long, a lot of my art was self-portraiture, where I would take self-portraits with my camera and then I would print them out. I would take self-portraits with my camera and then I would print them out and then I would draw over these images of myself with pen to draw out the essence. If you will not just show the physical side, I'm so grateful that you explained that part.
37:12
That's how you got started.
37:14
Yeah, and now that's one of my most popular services is what I call sacred portrayal, and so people send me their images and they print them out and I draw over them with gold pens. I draw out their spirit. So that part of my work was starting to get more and more popular around that time as well the portraits of myself that I would draw over, and I had people saying, can you do the same for me? Because they recognized that they recognized their own spirit in what I was drawing over my own photo. And the same was happening with the illustrations that I was doing of the female figure. Those at the time I was doing those with pen on paper and then it went into digital illustration.
37:54
But those are my two biggest offerings now, four years later, is the sacred portrayals Five years later actually and the sacred avatar, which is where I I draw those goddess-like, deified illustrations of women who send me their photos as well. So it's been a beautiful process from doing that to feel seen myself and to heal myself and to feel connected to that inner part of me that always felt quite uncatchable and undefinable. To now be doing that for others has been really beautiful.
38:30
Sorry, I'm just resonating with your words. I like that. You went to uncatchable, undefinable, and I still have this image of the water, the fluidity, the mist, and so your earlier desire to get the understanding that would feel right to you. Yes, one of the things that I wanted to ask you about, because it's something that I know very little about. I know that you also organize workshops and you've developed, let's say, an organized experience for women to explore their feminine archetype, and we are talking about Jungian feminine archetypes, about Jungian feminine archetypes, and so I wanted you to help me deconstruct this a little bit. Tell me first about how you discovered these Jungian archetypes.
39:28
Yes, so I will say that I discovered Jung back when I was going through that teenage darkness versus light phase I went to Jung I get it?
39:39
Yes, because at the time I was experiencing these weird coincidences and when I looked it up online, I discovered Carl Jung's work on synchronicities and it completely resonated. I discovered him back then, but the archetypes I came across because someone reached out to me a few years ago and asked me to illustrate the 12 feminine archetypes that she was working with for her business, so that she could have a visual representation of each archetype. And so, in order for me to do that, I had to study each archetype so that I could draw it, and I was really inspired and fascinated. And from there I ended up because I was already so passionate about talking about the feminine and our creativity and embodiment. The archetypes really resonated and I decided to put on workshops.
40:27
Yeah, from that point, Would you tell me a little bit about what an archetype means or what it means to you?
40:35
Yes, how I would describe it is that an archetype is a set of qualities, personality, traits, thoughts, emotions, that kind of creates this container of potential in our subconscious mind, as containers of potential that exist within all of us but that may come out at different times in our life. Naturally we may naturally embody one or two very dominantly and never touch on the others. Then some may spontaneously come out through, for example, the mother archetype. You may embody the mother archetypes throughout your life because you might be very nurturing and you like to take care of people, but sometimes you're not. And that mother archetype comes out when you have children or when you have to become a caretaker.
41:17
And each archetype also has a shadow side. So they have these good qualities or, quote-unquote, good qualities, the sort of most integrated qualities, and then you have the shadow qualities of what happens when you. That archetype shows up in a way that's wounded and repressed. And Carl Jung described these archetypes as universal symbols and primordial patterns that exist within the collective unconscious, meaning that they show up everywhere, in our mythology, in our stories, in our life stories, the dreams, religions, art. And so there is that element too, that they exist collectively and they also exist individually. Does that make sense?
42:04
yeah, that's right okay it's interesting because I forgot this about the collective unconscious, so I'd love to hear from you how did you bring these archetypes, or the notion of these archetypes, into your life?
42:16
while I was doing the illustrations for this woman, I remember working on the wild woman archetype and at that time I was also trying to find a meditation practice that felt good to me and I decided one day just to sit down and do like a 15 minute self-guided meditation Nothing, just maybe some.
42:43
I think maybe I played some music or something and I created the intention to meet with my inner wild woman and just to see what would happen, and I closed my eyes and I went on this journey and it was very impactful and I had this beautiful interaction with my inner wild woman and she showed up as this version of me, but also as what felt like a guide, and I came out of that.
43:11
I already knew that we hold a lot of wisdom within ourselves and we hold the answers and all of that, but I think that really strengthened that knowledge in me that I had within me the potential for interactions and conversations that would free me from just being. I think, throughout the days. We're so much in our own head with all the same voices, and when I went into this meditation with the intention to meet with my inner wild woman, I created this doorway for a different voice to come through and without controlling it, and it was really surprising and really powerful, and so that actually also really excited me to then meet the other archetypes, and it also had an impact on my daily life because then I started having these relationships inside of me with these different embodiments of my potential, and that wisdom started to show up in moments when I needed it throughout my day it throughout my day, so interesting.
44:25
I'm really grateful that you explained that because otherwise this could have stayed at the level of concept. For me and for those of you who've never done guided visualizations, it may still feel very conceptual, but there are a couple of really powerful guided visualizations that I have practiced and now that you say that, I can see how they are still very much with me. The coach, tara Moore, who I trained with as a facilitator for Playing Big, she does this amazing visualization where you go and visit your inner mentor. Wow, and it doesn't necessarily always go great the first time, by the way, I should say to anyone who tries, sometimes, absolutely sometimes, you see the wounded version of the archetype.
45:13
so yes, and sometimes you see nothing okay, and sometimes it takes a few practices, but yes, sometimes you do see the wounded, and sometimes you're very ready for it and then you embark upon like this wild ride.
45:25
But it's true, now that you're saying it like that, I realized just how it's almost. You realize that there's this inner place that you can go visit and that there's this part of you that you can talk to. And it's true that when it's not your inner voice, when the answers are cryptic and you don't really get it, and yeah, that's great.
45:51
Now I want to do it. No, in that way. That's very interesting. What you said about that. It's not your let's say, let's call it the ego voice. I know that's ego, but let's just call it that, to make things simple the voice of your current consolidated identity.
46:05
Yes, ego, there you go. Wonderful description, so maybe we I think that's a helpful question to answer of what are the signs that it's the voice of your inner guide, or the voice of spiritual wisdom, or the voice of love? Instead of that, how does it feel for you?
46:28
Generally, it feels like freedom. It tastes like freedom. You suddenly feel like you're breathing better. Your breath feels deeper, more expansive. It's almost like something's like washing over you. Yes, it's almost someone's just giving you wisdom and there's an immediate receiving of it. Yeah, yesterday I was actually practicing, because later today I'm hosting a guided visualization with a group I'm a part of. Oh wow, cool. It could not happen on a better day.
47:01
And I was training with a model by Jack Kornfield it's not by him, but he's one of my teachers called Temple Healing Meditation. I'll put the link and alternative if you want. Yes, and it's just so wonderful to see this lady and they're in training and he guides her and she goes and visit and she finds her wise woman in some woods, somewhere tropical, and she gave her gifts and she tells her things and at the end she says you can come back anytime. I'm inside of you, I'm available whenever you need me. Exactly so beautiful, yeah wow.
47:40
I love that because it's true that when we go into these Exactly so beautiful, yeah, like an opening you'll be receptive. You'll be curious. Instead of needing something, needing the answer, needing you'll feel suddenly like an opening happens.
48:07
Yeah, and energetically. I'm sure this corresponds to some of the things you may see when you do tarot readings with people. But there's a shift also, when you receive something that feels true, when you receive something that physically, your body recognizes as a truth, there's a change Like there's a change in tone and breath pattern in the coloring of someone. Even on screen you can see it. It's fascinating, it's so true. It's so true.
48:37
I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it. Me too, I love it. So tell me about how you got into tarot.
48:47
Yes, it was during that same period that I described, when I was going into my darkness and, at the same time, having these spiritual awakenings A friend of mine, his uncle, had given him a tarot deck. He was very excited. I had never heard of tarot before and he wanted to give me a reading. And so he didn't. He was just learning at the time. He was just playing with the cards. But he pulled out the cards and they I can't even remember what the reading was about, but I just remember thinking finally, this I've been missing this my whole life. This is, this is how I want to talk these symbols, these drawings, these energy patterns that hold meaning and that hold that.
49:32
The thing with the tarot cards is that they are like these keys to complex, deep stories and meanings within us and within life, but then they hold it in a simple kind of way. I don't know how to describe it. I guess that's what a symbol is. But I just resonated so deeply because at that point, as I said, I was struggling so much to define myself, to use language, to explain who I was, to find boxes to put myself in, and these tarot cards were like this beautiful arrangement of this is who you are, and all of these different symbols, and I became. It was really an obsession. From that point on, I bought my own deck. I became absolutely obsessed. I was pulling cards, I was reading about it, online reading books, doing readings for myself, my friends. It was really an obsession.
50:26
I like that because you go very deep into what you fall in love with, which also is, I guess, what made you an expert right, Made you feel like you wanted to pour all of yourself in something that you just found as your answer, your truth, right. This was also a full body, not just your mind, saying yes, this is me.
50:52
Exactly, exactly. And it's been eight years now, I think, and I still feel like I'm learning. So I think that's what happens when you love something so much, you just never get enough. But that was the meet cue of me and Tara in my life.
51:06
I love that the meet cue. And so how did you come to decide to creating your own deck?
51:14
I think I realized very early on that was something that I would end up doing because I was an artist. And then every card is an artwork and I realized how much I loved tarot and it was one of those things that scared me. I was like, oh my God, I know that this is something I'm going to have. It felt like I have to do this along my path. It doesn't make sense if I don't merge these two worlds along my path at some point. But it's terrifying because there are 78 cards and what a big project. So it took me four years, but I think so. I started creating this deck that I've just released now, in 2020. And I decided to do it at that point because lots of people started saying to me hey, do you have a deck? And I kind of took it as a sign that now that was the time to do it.
52:06
I would say that's a good sign. Yeah.
52:08
Do you have a?
52:08
deck. That's great, and can you tell me, or share with our listeners, what was the process like for you to create this?
52:18
It was so deeply personal. I don't know. The nature of how I create is always from inner space to an outer space. So it's everything that I create, it has a personal journey to it, even if it's small and simple, it's always coming from an understanding. And then I try and I alchemize it out if that makes sense. And so when it came to the tarot cards, it was very deep, because every card has a meaning and has a story and has this, an archetypal, also power to it.
52:56
So that meant that it wasn't just whatever journey I went on within and then made the art from there. It was very much like an initiation of living and embodying each of the cards, having that understanding of them personally, not just from how I understood them definition-wise from my studies, but also how it showed up for me in my universe. And that's also why it took me so long. It took me four years, because it would come and go in waves of okay, which cards am I drawing now? And then I would start creating them and then at the same time I would be going on these inner journeys and there were so many layers to that process that I don't really know how I was to begin with it, but it has taught me a lot, this tarot deck. It has been a teacher for me.
53:46
Tell me more about embodiment and what that meant for you.
53:50
What I started to realize in the period after this crisis where I had the surgery and had these awakenings around, realizing that I had a body, let's put it that way. It was like suddenly I realized oh, I have a body, I need to take care of it. I started to understand the power of presence and landing in my body, with no intention of doing anything for me or controlling it in any way, just almost like meditation practices that involve some kind of movement as well, just like really getting in touch with feeling, the sensations of being in a body and the fluidity of it and the fluidity of it. And I began there, in those embodiment practices, let's say, to find different poses that really spoke to me. And then I would draw those poses and then, in that process of embodying myself in the present, to illustrating that moment and putting it on paper. It felt like making these footprints, like these energetic footprints of the cave paintings with the hands, like I was here that's one way of seeing it right Like I'm here, I'm making my presence known to myself and to the world. And that practice for me, the embodiment and then the illustration of that power and of me in that moment, felt like this footprint of I was here. This is who I am, without saying in words I am this and I am that, but just this is me, and it really feels very deep because it's not coming from. This is me, Lucia, on the 12th of December at 2pm. It's, this is me, Lucia, on the 12th of december at 2 pm. It's, this is me. Something else there's like a spirit that moves through you and and I found that the more and I'm still learning this, I'm no master at this but the more deeply you're embodied, the more you can channel your spiritual self. It's so many people get it wrong. I got it wrong at first as well. You, you are interested in the spiritual realm, so you go out, you go further out of your body to discover something else. But actually, in this embodiment and creative process, for me, I discovered, okay, the more I land here in the present moment, the more something wants to speak through me, where I can discover my spiritual self without having to go outside, and so that, yeah, and that was, from the beginning, something I knew I wanted to use in the creation of my tarot deck. That's also why it was a very personal process, because I had these kind of prompts if you want.
56:34
Okay, now here's the empress. How do you embody her? What does she represent? The high priestess, justice and right. As I started creating this deck, I also moved in with my boyfriend, who I'm still living with, and so for all the cards that were masculine figures, I was like, hey, can you pose for me and can I bring you into this world and can you show me how you embody the hermit? And this is what the hermit represents and how does that feel in your body? Can you take different poses and it was really special.
57:03
Yeah, that's amazing. It's interesting also because I feel that there's a through line between how you started your early artworks with taking pictures of yourself and overlaying with the, the golden pen, and yeah and that, already being a form of I am this and I am that, but also I am more than, yeah, this and that and I am present or I was here, yeah, yes, that's really cool. It makes the deck feel even more special. Um, so you launched it a couple of weeks ago. You finished your kickstarter campaign yesterday, yesterday. Yes, that's so exciting. First of all, congratulations, thank you, thank you, and so what's the next steps? What can people look forward to? I know that people can book for readings on your website, which I highly recommend. I love mine.
58:07
Thank you. Yes, I do readings Also within the Sacred Avatar process, where I illustrate you as a deified version of yourself. I offer readings within that process as well. You can book that. It's a reading is included, then I give you the instructions for an embodiment practice and then I draw you from that embodiment practice. I also offer the sacred portrayals on my website, which we can link, hopefully, of course, yes, yes, and my instagram. But now with now, with this deck being released, over the next few years, I'll be bringing out a lot more of these kinds of offerings to the world, so I'm hoping to make some journals and more decks lots of exciting things in the works.
58:53
That's super. There's one thing that I wanted to come back to, actually, which I forgot, which was the name of the deck, so you called it the Elysian Tarot, and could you please share with us what it means to you.
59:07
So I named it after the Elysian Fields, which is the paradise of the afterlife in ancient Greek mythology, and the reason I named it the Elysian Fields is because back when I discovered tarot and again this period of my life that I keep coming back to, this dark period that was also filled with light, really is where it's like the birthplace of who I am now I feel in a lot of ways, and during that time my dad lived somewhere in the countryside in Geneva where there was very low light pollution, so then the stars were absolutely incredible and it was one of the only times where I felt peace was at night. Looking up at the stars, it was like I could escape all the inner turmoil and all of the rest of what I was going through during that time was under the stars, and I felt this state of wonder and just openness and curiosity. They're the same kind of feelings that we were explaining when you hear something true within yourself. I felt that with the stars and I felt like I was in that state of peace, was able to hear these voices that were coming from myself, but it also felt like I was talking to the stars and I was really hearing them talk back to me and it was such a beautiful time of growth for me.
01:00:28
And it was around the same period where I was discovering tarot and diving deeper into tarot and in my time spent with the stars, I started learning the constellations and the names of the stars and the constellations.
01:00:39
And I discovered that. I started learning the constellations and the names of the stars and the constellations and I discovered that a lot of the constellations were named by the ancient Greeks and therefore they hold a lot of mythology, because the ancient Greeks would make sense of these patterns by saying oh yes, that's the swan Cygnus from this myth and that's why Zeus placed Cygnus into the sky and that's why we have this constellation. So it's filled with stories and I knew that I wanted to pour the essence of that, nothing specific, not just the mythology, not just the stars, not just my experience, but just the essence of my experience with the stars. I wanted the deck to hold that, and so, the stars being my paradise, I named the deck after the Elysian Fields, being the paradise of the ancient Greeks, and then I have included some Greek mythology and some celestial mythology throughout some of the cards as well.
01:01:39
I'm so glad I asked you that question because I can feel why I love the cards so much.
01:01:48
They speak to me on an artwork level because I could totally see them just being lined up on a wall somewhere and they'd make a tremendous piece of art, but I guess I resonate with the celestial symbols as well, and also I guess that I'm, I guess, like everybody else who will hear our conversation, that your passion and that love, you just called the stars your paradise. So you linked your paradise into this tarot deck called after the Greekreek mythological paradise. Yeah, that's a beautiful. That's a beautiful through line. Thank you if people want to buy it now, can they? Can anyone just purchase the deck, or is it closed for this part of the kickstarter campaign?
01:02:41
if you would like to buy a deck outside of the Kickstarter campaign. If you didn't support it during this time, it will be available most likely at the end of February, maybe March. Yeah, because this is my first time doing anything like this, so I just need to figure out. I've printed out 100 first edition prints. They're all being shipped this month. Then I have 500 going into production in January. So there will be decks available once I have those here, but I'm shipping them all myself. So I need to figure out the next steps beyond that point. But I'm hoping end of February, March, you'll be able to buy one.
01:03:20
That's great. I know I have nerded out asking you about this and I don't know if it's going to matter to anyone who listens, but I love a good book or card or a notebook. It's very tactile. I'm literally caressing my hands while I talk, and so I'm excited on your behalf as to what it was like to choose the material, the print. Do you want to tell us a bit about that part of your experience?
01:03:48
It was so much fun and it was also very much a trial and error process because I wasn't able to go into the factory and look at all the card samples. You have to be sent the card samples and even then it's hard to imagine what your artwork is going to look like with that material and there's so many gold foil options to go with as well. So when I did the first samples I got it wrong a couple of times and it was a funny thing because I really tried to go with my intuition and intuitively pick just as much as I was feeling into it like physically and looking at the card material. And to get it wrong was such an interesting process to be like. I thought my intuition was right about that. But also it's a lot of fun to discover the different ways that a material can affect a color and an experience of something.
01:04:45
So it was frustrating but it was a lot of fun, and so we need to do justice to the reason why we are in touch. The person, julia. Julia, it was such a strange synchronous moment for me to invite Julia to come to Geneva for a salon that I was hosting where she was the guest, and for you and her to connect at that moment, and for you to be wanting to shoot the tarot deck for the launch and to be able to do that with her in Geneva. That was just the whole.
01:05:26
Thing. That was wild.
01:05:27
Yeah, absolutely, and I'm glad we're speaking now because the day after she saw you she photographed a friend of mine and we got the pictures this week and they are amazing. Oh, julia is so talented, she really is. She really is. How did you guys meet?
01:05:49
We met at a retreat where we were both giving workshops, I think two or three years ago, and I wasn't familiar with her work before that point, but I remember seeing her work and also just meeting her, but especially seeing her work and then seeing something in it that really resonated. I could just tell that she understood how I create through seeing her. Do you know what I mean? It was a very resonant moment where I was like oh, she gets it and she gets what I get, and it's that thing that you can't explain very well. So it's so powerful when you meet someone and you just and it happens with different things as well you just know that there's an intrinsic understanding of something that you don't have to explain to each other.
01:06:36
And she did a photo shoot for me that retreat. It was my first time ever doing a photo shoot and she just she's. She's amazing at how she holds space and makes you feel comfortable and allows these different parts of you to come out and be expressed, and so I knew very quickly that I wanted her to photograph my deck when it came out and so, through the magic of me bringing her to Geneva, this happened, but also so you took her for the shoot.
01:07:05
So the Salève is actually it is so cloudy today I can't see it, but normally I can see it from my office, and it's a small mountain on the French side, on the other side of the lake, from where I am, which is very close to Geneva. But so what is that amazing tree that you took her to for this photo shoot?
01:07:25
Oh, my goodness, it's like a little fairy portal into another realm. It's amazing. It was, as you said, so synchronistic that she was in Geneva at that point, because I was hoping that she would be in London because she lives in Estonia. And so I sent her a message and I said Julia, can you maybe come to London in October or September? I really want you to do the photos of my deck. And she goes oh yeah, I think I can make that happen. By the way, I'm going to Geneva in September. Do you have any recommendations of what I should do? And I was so shocked because I had already planned a trip to Geneva to go see my father and my sister and we had exactly aligned our dates, unknowingly to both of us being in Geneva, and I knew that there was some kind of divine planning there, because Geneva is obviously where I grew up, but it's also where I began creating my tarot deck. So I felt very right.
01:08:23
And my dad lives in Geneva, but he also has a little house on the Celebes and his house is very close to this, I don't know what to call it. It's the part of the forest where there are these huge ancient rocks piled up onto each other and I used to go there with him as a kid, with my sister. We used to go and play there, sometimes on the weekends, and I always loved that place because it really is so magical. You go there and you just you feel like you can see the spirits and the other world. And so when I realized that there was a chance of bringing Julia there and doing a part of our shoot there, I was mind blown. And this tree that you're speaking about is that's where it is. It's, it's right by these rocks and it really has a presence. It's a beautiful tree, yeah, and from that point on the Celeve, you overlook the valley with MC and the Mont Blanc and all those mountains behind. It's very powerful.
01:09:21
Nice. We will link to the pictures so people will be able to get a feel for what that was like. That's so great. We'll also link to Julia's website so people can discover the work that she does as a photographer and multimedia artist. What does creativity mean to you? What?
01:09:41
does creativity mean to you? Creativity is the process of alchemizing our inner world into something outside of us, and so for me it's not limited to an art form. For me it can also be just an energetic the way that we move into, the way we move through the world, what we call into our lives, the decisions that we move into, the way we move through the world, what we call into our lives, the decisions that we make. But when it's intentional it's creative, because it's coming from a connection to the inner space and then intentionally alchemizing that somehow into our external reality and when it's not intentional.
01:10:18
I feel like I need to know that when it's not intentional.
01:10:22
We're just running on autopilot and I think we can still make beautiful things, but it's not going to feel true, it's not going to be transformative in my opinion, because I think creativity is a transformative process.
01:10:41
Yeah, I remember you telling me that you also considered creativity as the power that helps take the unseen into the seen. Yeah, yes, which feels very relevant to what you do in your artwork with the tarot deck, with the other offerings that you have for your clients. But so how would you describe the services that you offer to the women who come to you?
01:11:19
I would describe them as strengthening that connection to the unseen power and that unseen divinity and your unseen light Because you're right when I talk about this alchemization process and I speak about the inner world is the unseen.
01:11:36
It's what is mysterious, and it also encompasses not just what's inside of us but also what's around us that we're perceiving in invisible ways, if you will, and if you're receptive to it, it is inspiring. And usually what happens is that when you're receptive to this unseen and the unseen can also be witnessing something beautiful and being moved by it in an invisible way. So feeling the beauty, not just seeing the beauty, feeling it and being moved by it. And in that way I think all of us are creative, because that moves us to do something from the inspiration that we've received. And if you do have an artistic practice whether it be painting, photography, writing, dancing then you will naturally want to move in that direction, with that inspiration. And even if you, the thing is that I meet a lot of people who say, oh, I'm not creative at all, and usually what they mean is that they're not good at art or they've tried to draw and they're just not good at it and so they've given up, but everyone is creative, naturally, I believe.
01:12:52
I believe the same. Yeah, absolutely, but so I think that we come to the end of our conversation. Are you ready for my closing questions, which I know some of them are not the easiest to answer?
01:13:06
yes, I'm ready, let's try. Thank, you.
01:13:11
So what is your favorite word? A word that you could theoretically tattoo on yourself or at least live with for a while?
01:13:21
It would have to be wonder. Yes, wonder is for me that complete state of openness and receptivity to something bigger than you.
01:13:38
What does connection mean to you?
01:13:40
This one is a hard one to answer, but I think connection for me is when two things come together to experience each other, and there's always in that the invitation for love, because I thought about it. When I think about connection, part of me wants to say connection is love, but it's not always love. There's always an invitation for love and connection, but I think connection has to be two things coming together to experience each other and form a bond of some kind.
01:14:16
I know this one is hard, but let's give it a try nonetheless. What song best represents you?
01:14:28
Hmm, give it a try nonetheless. What song best represents you? I just have a huge blank. I can think of albums that have been important to me over my life. Okay, and I've always been a Lana Del Rey fan. So which album? The Born to Die album, the first one that I think she released in 2012. I don't know if that best defines me, but it definitely holds a special place in my heart.
01:14:56
That sounds gorgeous. Is there one song in particular that you enjoy out of that album?
01:15:12
I don't know, I think it's because it's not her lyrics don't necessarily speak to me in my own experience or who I am, but it's the, the, the vibe she brings, the energy she brings in the music. It really speaks to the part of me that romanticizes everything and the drama of expression and love and suffering and all that.
01:15:32
I can feel the connection you have to the music.
01:15:35
Yeah.
01:15:38
What's the sweetest thing that's ever happened to you.
01:15:42
I think a lot of sweet things have happened to me in my life, but maybe the sweetest thing is that I was given a younger sister and that has been lots of sweet moments that keep on giving. I feel very blessed. What's her name? Naina.
01:16:01
Naina.
01:16:03
Yeah, I love her.
01:16:07
What is a secret superpower that you have? And I say secret aka something you haven't told us about yet?
01:16:13
My dream world is super, is a superpower for me. I don't know about for other people, but it has taught me so much and it continues to teach me a lot. I have very vivid dreams every night and it's a superpower for my creativity because it means that it gives me inspiration and ideas, and when I was younger I used to have dreams that were foretelling the future a little bit, but I shut that out because it was a little bit scary. But I think that counts as a superpower.
01:16:48
I'd say so. What is a favorite book that you can share with us?
01:16:54
I love the Book of Symbols which was published by Tashin, and it's like a dictionary of symbols. Do you know?
01:17:02
the book I'm talking about, no, but now I know about it, I want it right now.
01:17:06
It's amazing. It's like a big dictionary of all the different symbols animals, body parts, plants, everything and it gives you not just a description of these symbols but what it means throughout different cultures and historically, and sometimes gives you a little poem or a quote. It's a.
01:17:24
It's an amazing book wow, okay, it's going to be on my christmas list. I'll send you the link. Where is somewhere you visited that you felt really had an impact on who you are today?
01:17:40
the art teacher that I mentioned earlier who said if you want to be a good artist, you have to know who you are.
01:17:45
He brought us as an art class to CERN in Geneva, oh yeah yeah, and we were given a little tour and we had some talks that we listened to from different astrophysicists there and different physicists talking about the universe, and I learned about dark matter there, which was for the first time, which is that 95% or 97% of the universe is made up of something that we don't know what it is.
01:18:14
And that was a very impactful moment for me because it happened during that time where I was just about turning into, towards the mystery and so also hearing from these astrophysicists, actually the 97% of the universe we don't know, we don't we just big mystery was an extra confirmation of even if I figure everything out in my head, that's still just a tiny percent of the tiny three percent of everything we think we know about the universe. And it was a very important moment for me because it was like a push to. It was like a yes from the universe Go into the mystery. It's not just in your head, it's not just this experience that you're having. Actually, the whole universe is a big mystery, so it was a very important moment for me.
01:18:59
How amazing Now imagining that you can step into a future version of yourself. What do you think is the most important advice that future you needs to give to present time you? I?
01:19:16
know that she would tell me to stop putting so much meaning to the things that are worrying me present day and to focus on my dreams and to focus on what I want to create in my life, and she would probably tell me that everything's going to be fine. To stop worrying so much. I'm not a big worrier, but I think I do. I can go into my fear-based thinking very quickly.
01:19:46
Yeah, that brings us to my last and favorite question what brings you happiness?
01:19:55
So many things, but I think the quickest way for me to access my happiness would be through nature. So I would say nature brings me happiness. The quickest way for me to access my happiness would be through nature. So I would say nature brings me happiness and my loved ones, friends, family yeah, awesome.
01:20:20
It was so lovely to talk to you and to ask you all these questions. I really have loved getting to know you. I'm so grateful for Julia, for or for synchronicity yeah, everything, all of it. Yeah, to have us all connected in this way. I will make sure to link your website details about the tarot and all of your answers, including your favorite book and stuff in the show notes. And if anybody wants to get in touch, what's the best way for them to contact you, if they want a reading, want to know more about the archetype, workshops, et cetera.
01:20:53
The best place to go would be my website, and if you have any questions, you can fill in the form and send me an email. Instagram is okay too, but the website is more efficient for me, fair enough.
01:21:03
Yes, awesome. Thank you so much for your time and I hope that we'll get to meet in person very soon.
01:21:13
Yes, I hope so too. I'll definitely be coming to Geneva and we can organize something, and thank you for this wonderful conversation. I really enjoyed it Awesome.
01:21:24
Have a great rest of the day and we'll speak again soon. Yes, you too. So, friends and listeners, thanks again for joining me today. If you'd like to hear more, you can subscribe to the show on the platform of your choice. And if you'd like to connect with me, you can find me at show on the platform of your choice. And if you'd like to connect with me, you can find me at Anvi on threads on Instagram. Anne V Muhlethaler. On LinkedIn If you don't know how to spell it, the link is in the notes or on Instagram, at underscore.
01:21:56
Out of the clouds, where I also share daily musings about mindfulness. You can find all of the episodes of the podcast and much more on the website outoftheclouds.com. If you'd like to find out more from me, I invite you also to subscribe to the Meta View, my weekly newsletter, where I explore coaching, brand development, conscious communication and the future of work. That's the Meta View with two Ts TheMetaView.com. So that's it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening to Out of the Clouds. I hope that you will join me again next time. Until then, be well, be safe and take care.