Nada Ghazal (@NadaGhazalJewelry) is a jewellery designer and entrepreneur based in Beirut, Lebanon. In this episode of Out of the Clouds, she shares the story of her relationship with design and creativity with host Anne Muhlethaler. Growing up, Nada shares that she was always fascinated by adorning herself, and while she spent a lot of time painting, she was also making her own jewellery and shoes with the help of local artisans. Even back then, she remembers that her desire was to create objects that would connect her to other people.
Nada tells how she landed in graphic design since there weren't any jewellery or fashion courses in Beirut at the time, and which tilted her career towards advertising, giving her resources to start her own brand. Nada recalls how she quit her fancy agency job in Dubai on her 30th birthday, in order not to start her company ‘too late.’
The talented creative explains how her vision was to develop an individualistic line, that would be timeless but with jewellery that can be worn day to night — not be left in a safe. And from the start, Nada wanted to have the atelier under the same roof as the rest of the team.
Having lived through war and, more recently, survived the terrifying blast that destroyed part of the Lebanese capital, Nada movingly recounts how she strives to translate her experiences into her pieces, even turning a painful feeling into something beautiful.
She also talks eloquently about her deep connection to her city, her muse, which she feels has a soul or a spirit all of its own and what inspires her and gives her the courage to get back on her feet, rebuild and start again.
The two finish by discussing Nada's wellness and grounding rituals, which include a regular breathing practice in the morning, and her favorite guided meditations.
A moving and inspiring interview. Happy listening!
***
You can find Nada Ghazal on her website : https://www.nadaghazal.com/en/home
On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/nadaghazaljewelry/
On TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@nadaghazaljewelry
On Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/NadaGhazalJewelry
On Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.ch/NadaGhazalJewelry/
On Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/user/NadaGJewelry
And finally on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/nadaghazaljewelry/
The meditation teacher Sally Kempton - https://www.sallykempton.com/
Imagine by John Lennon - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOgFZfRVaww
The book 'Many Lives, Many Masters by Brian L Weiss - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34452.Many_Lives_Many_Masters
***
If you enjoyed this episode, click subscribe for more, and consider writing a review of the show on Apple Podcasts, we really appreciate your support and feedback. And thank you so much for listening!
For all notes and transcripts, please visit Out Of The Clouds on Simplecast - https://out-of-the-clouds.simplecast.com/
Sign up for Anne's email newsletter for more from Out of the Clouds at https://annevmuhlethaler.com.
Follow Anne:
Twitter: @annvi
IG: @_outoftheclouds
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Hi. Hello, bonjour, and namaste. This is Out of the Clouds, a podcast at the crossroads between business and mindfulness. I'm your host, Anne Muhlethaler. Today, my guest is a wonderful and talented designer based in Lebanon called Nada Ghazal. Nada's a creative and committed entrepreneur whose love of jewelry, like it's the case with many of her peers as I've heard before, started when she was a young girl. Just before we started recording the interview, Nada was sharing with me the story that she would bake cookies as a kid with a hole inside them in order to wear them as bracelets. How cute is that? In our conversation, Nada shares her story from Lebanon to the UK, where she studied to Dubai, and how she went from painting to advertising and finally to launching her own brand, and what inspired her to do so.
Now, Nada, as well as her team, her family, and of course the city of Beirut, along with their country has been rocked by multiple conflicts as she was growing up. And more recently, they survived, just about, the awful explosion that blew up the port and part of the center of Beirut in August 2020. I had to fight back the tears when Nada recounted the event of that day. But despite of this, this inspired and talented designer is a shiny example of how passion, commitment, and love can get us through the hardest of events. Anyway, let me stop talking, and I leave you to discover this wonderful woman for yourself. Happy listening.
Welcome to Out of the Clouds. It's such a pleasure to see you again.
Nada Ghazal:
Thank you, Anne. It's really a pleasure actually going through this wonderful broadcast.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Thank you so much. So where am I finding you this morning?
Nada Ghazal:
I'm in Beirut, actually in my workshop. I have the workshop just behind me here. What's wonderful about this space is that it has the office and the showroom as well.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Wow,
Nada Ghazal:
The whole team is here, which is really wonderful because everyone gets to work on everything.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
That means that there must be a very strong relationship between the commercial team and the artisans that are making the jewelry. That's pretty unique, I would say, isn't it?
Nada Ghazal:
I think I'm grateful to be able to do that. From the minute I started this business, I've always had this as a part of the vision. I just believe that even when an [inaudible 00:03:04] is connected to gold [inaudible 00:03:07], it just makes such a difference and it makes everything... It even makes work more fun for everyone, so I just love it. I think I'm really, really grateful to be able to have this.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
That's wonderful. One of the things that I love to do when I start the podcast is to ask my guests to tell their story. I guess part of the reason why I do that is because I like to get to know people. Before we talk about what we do, it's nice to know who we are. So would you indulge me and tell me your story?
Nada Ghazal:
Sure. I was brought up in Beirut, I was born in Beirut and unfortunately during the war. I'm just going to tell you a little bit about what got me into the jewelry business, it makes it easier to tell that story. As a child, I used to spend a lot of time with my grandmother. My grandmother used to do a lot of crochet, and watching her, I became so infatuated with design and even with just working with your hands. I just loved the idea of how these little hands can create beautiful things.
So while sitting with her, I used to get all of the threads, the beads, any copper wires that were left over. I actually used to use them to make my own jewelry. I started making my own jewelry when I was around five or six, and that made me just fall in love with jewelry because I would just wear rings and bracelets all the time that I used to make. And then I went to boarding school in the UK for a few years and then came back to Beirut. Even during my years at the boarding school, I used to love art and I used to paint a lot, but I always had the idea of wanting to create something that actually connects me with people around the world. So when it was time to go to university in Beirut, I did not have the chance to do jewelry design.
The other thing that I loved actually was shoe design, which I used to create for myself as well. But there was no jewelry design and no shoe design at university, so I did graphic design. While I was doing graphic design, I did a lot of freelance projects like logos and packaging and that got me to work in advertising when I graduated. I left Beirut and went to Dubai, and I worked in the advertising world for 10 years. I started as an art director, then a senior art director, then head of the department. I grew in that creative world in advertising. I actually really loved it back then. I loved building brands, it was just wonderful. I had few international awards and it was great, I really loved it. But I always on the side used to create my own pieces of jewelry and also used to create my own shoes and get them produced until I thought that I really wanted to start my own business, and I didn't want it to be late. So on my 30th birthday, I just decided to resign, hoping that I would start my own business. After resigning, I stayed for around six, seven months at work to finalize the projects that I had initiated. And then I came back to Beirut and actually started the business.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Wow. First of all, I'm super curious, because I love shoes as well, actually, I loved shoes way before I got interested in jewelry, what kind of shoes did you design for yourself, and where did you have them made?
Nada Ghazal:
Okay, so I used to make my own sketches. In Beirut, we have great workshops, great goldsmith, so I used to go to a jeweler and show them my sketches to get them made. With the shoes, we had one store which was very close to our house who used to produce shoes in Lebanon and feature them in his own store. So I went there and checked if he would actually make my own shoes. And then when he started producing my creations, I'm selling in this store, I told him, "No, I will create few things for you, but whatever I create for myself, just please can you just make them for me?" No-
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Yeah, that's very funny. Taking advantage of your talents a little bit, mh-hmm.
Nada Ghazal:
Exactly, yeah. So I used to make them there, both the jewelry and the shoes as well.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
What kind of shoes were you making? Was it flats, heels?
Nada Ghazal:
The thing is all kinds of shoes. The reason why I wanted to make my own shoes is because back then we did not have a lot of choices in Beirut. I just felt that there is a specific heel that I like or a specific color that I like or a specific fabric that I wanted to use that I did not feel was available and that I felt I needed for my own mood. Because for me, shoes is a mood. Even when I wake up in the morning, depending on my mood, I decide what shoes I want to wear. And then after that, I decide on the outfits, because the shoes, somehow the heels and the color and the fabric sets goes with that specific mood that I'm in. Sometimes I felt that I cannot find shoes that suited my mood, so I wanted to create them. This is how it's really started.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
I am an awe. I never thought that was possible. But then again, I didn't know of a workshop that could make shoes had I had the fancy of drawing. Did you always draw as a kid, or is this something that you already picked up with graphic design?
Nada Ghazal:
No, I've always used to draw as a kid. As a matter of fact, it was my art teacher in the UK, at school, who said to me, "You're going to be an artist when you grow up. I'm sure you're going to be a great painter." I mean, I used to paint a lot, and although my mother's house was full of my paintings, et cetera, I just felt that it was something else I wanted to do rather than just painting. I felt I wanted to create more of an object. When I said that to my teacher, I told her, "I want to create something that connects me with women or with men, whoever, with human beings. I wanted to connect with people more," she said, "What do you mean?" I said, "I want to create something a person in Japan would be wearing and that piece would connect us without knowing each other." So this was something that I just felt as a child. But yes, I've always enjoyed painting and did sculpture as well.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
That's wonderful. Now, I'm super curious as well as to what went through your mind when you decided to resign and leap. How clear were you as to what you wanted to do?
Nada Ghazal:
When I left advertising, I came back to Beirut, and then the first thing I did was I rented an apartment, and I just split it. This is my room and living room, and then this is my little workshop, and this is my showroom. But what it was for, I wasn't completely 100% certain. I started doing my research. The third thing that I used to love and still love is home accessories. So basically, I like the things that actually accessorize, it actually changed the look. So home accessories really changed the look of a whole house, and so does jewelry, and so do shoes, I think. So I started doing my research. While I was doing my research, as a matter of fact, I started designing little bits and pieces of cushions and I started designing some rings in copper wire. I was like, "While doing my research, I started doing little bits and pieces."
But then I realized the reason I really wanted to create jewelry was because back then in Lebanon specifically, I thought there was a lack in the market of jewelry that we could actually wear every day and at the same time wear on an occasion. I felt most of the jewelry, besides few beautiful brands, most of the jewelry, they were not individualistic. They did not have a story. They did not connect with me. Most of them were big pieces that people wear to weddings and really big occasions. I really did that research and I thought, "This is it. This is what I want to introduce to the market. I want to introduce something that first stems from a story that we can connect with, something that is very individualistic, something that is timeless, something that we can wear daily and not just put in the safe.
And then I set my mind to it, and I started the exercise. To start with, I wanted to translate the jewelry pieces that I did as a child into pieces made out of 18 carat gold and precious stones and beads. I used to work a lot with wires. The reason I loved working with wires is because with wires I connected things. Having the experience of the war, that gave me an experience of... I always had separation anxiety growing up. Running from one home to another, running away from one country to another, et cetera, I had that separation anxiety. So wires meant a lot to me because they connected things together.
The first collection I did was made out of wires and beads, and I would actually make my story out of that. Let's say I would actually make that kind of a ring with six small beads and two bigger beads, which actually presented my own family because we were six siblings and a mother and a father, and I connected them in a way. Basically, that was my first collection. My first collection was around connecting things together. Each piece had a story of its own. Plus, I was inspired to work with wires because if you look at the skies in Lebanon and all of the electrical wires and everything, it's very chaotic. So even that by its own inspired me to use wires. This is how the first collection came out really. It was just out of experiences, feelings, things that I see, I just got a collection out of it.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
That's wonderful. I visited Lebanon once, and I spent a few days in Beirut. We went up the coast a little bit. And so, I feel like I can recall the wires and that sort of slightly chaotic... I was going to see a skyline, but it's not, it's not as high as that. It's wonderful that you dig so much in your own experience to create the jewelry. I heard you say in a few interviews as well how much your jewelry is telling a story. It feels very peculiar, and I don't mean that in a bad way, on the country, I think it's kind of extraordinary. Is this something that you think stemmed from your extensive experience in the art direction, in the branding that you did as an advertiser? Or do you think you wanted to be a storyteller from earlier in your life? I'm curious as to how one discovers that they want to tell a story through jewelry.
Nada Ghazal:
Okay, I'll tell you. I just feel that even as a child I wasn't very expressive in words. I mean, I was a very social person, had a lot of friends, but I used to talk to myself more than talk to anyone else. I used to play a lot with my imagination really. I mean, that's how I used to have fun. I used to talk a lot, try to dig into why I feel that way, why would I say that, why do I think that way? I think even when I sketch, I used to express feelings in my sketches. And when I started creating my first collection, I never sketched it before. I actually started really crocheting it. This is how it came out.
But when I did that, I felt that unconsciously I was translating a story or something that I wanted to express in every single piece. And then moving from that, from one collection to the other, it just became one of my trends where I would be going through a specific experience, and that experience for me is translated into shapes and forms and even textures. I would actually draw it and then realize that that drawing expresses something that I'm going through or a story. And even sometimes when I'm going through some kind of pain, I translate it to something that's even beautiful. I go back to a collection that I created in 2006. In 2006, my wires became borders, and I realized that they became borders because we went through a war in 2006. I needed that protection, and that came out in my pieces. This is just a slight example.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
It's fascinating. Just to give you context, when I was a teenager, I discovered that I had a decent voice. I became a singer. I pursued this as a side gig to my regular day job for a long time. It's interesting you should say that too. I find that it gives us a chance to transform. I think the word crystallize is the best way to describe the process of bringing it outside any kind of deep emotion we have, whether it's a piece of writing, a piece of jewelry, or in expressing ourselves through music.
Nada Ghazal:
Exactly.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
I feel like you are the first designer I speak to, I do know a lot of them from my old job, and you are the first one I speak to who seems to be using it as such a personal outlet, which I think clearly links to what I read on your website. Because that emotional connection that you want to create, what you spoke about, about connecting to someone maybe in Japan or somewhere far in the world, I could see how this could happen when it is coming from within.
Nada Ghazal:
Yes. You know something, I think it's part of giving as well and sharing. Because sometimes I feel that when you do have a story or when you do have a talent or when you can create something that's beautiful, whether it's a song or whether it's music, or whether it's art, whatever it is, I just feel like we're given that talent but also to be able to share around the world because it's not just mine. I just feel that whatever I create somehow is created through me to be able to share with the rest as well. This is why I say that maybe the most successful creative people, people who are very generous and sharing it creates, because it's not enough to create it. It makes it more as a whole and it gives it more substance when it's shared with others.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Could not agree with you more. I'm trying to stay with you and be super present, but as you said that I was scanning my mind for successful creatives. And indeed, the ones that came to mind are very generous people, so it's an interesting parallel. Now, there were a couple of questions that were coming through to my mind at the same time. I read, and I think I heard you as well say that Beirut is your muse and one of your greatest inspirations. Could you talk us about the city and how it inspires you?
Nada Ghazal:
Yeah. Okay, I may get a bit emotional about this, but-
Anne V Muhlethaler:
It's fine, I can get emotional too. We're good.
Nada Ghazal:
I do have a very, very, very deep connection with Beirut. I mean, Lebanon as a whole, but maybe because I've lived in Beirut mainly. I cannot express where this connection comes from. I just feel I'm really, really, really rooted, like a tree in this city. Although we have a lot of challenges and although we have a lot of, I mean, very sad and horrible things in Beirut, I just cannot but see the beauty of it. To me, somehow Beirut is an entity on its own, and people who live in Beirut who have heard Beirut so much is another entity.
What I'm really connected to and in love with is the land. I'm just connected to the soil, Beirut as a city. I love Lebanese people of course, I'm one of them, but I'm connected mainly to Beirut as a soul, as a spirit. Everything I see in Beirut, I just turn it into beautiful things. For example, people see the narrow streets, it's scattered next to each other. They could look really ugly. They're just like white and then narrow. But to me, they have a lot of charm. I actually see that charm and try to translate that charm into pieces. Even when you have wonderful ceilings that are destroyed, some people see the destruction in these wonderful ceilings, but I see the glory in these wonderful ceilings, and I try to translate into rings and necklaces. I just have that deep connection.
I've been feeling that I'm losing the city for many years. When you feel that you are losing something, you try to hang on to the beauty of it. And then I translate this beauty into jewelry because I want to preserve it, because I'm creating something that's timeless. I just feel, "Let me just preserve that beauty and these timeless pieces and then share these timeless pieces with others so that they have a taste of the beauty of Beirut." I don't know if I said too much, but-
Anne V Muhlethaler:
No, that was very moving. There's a beautiful video on your website where you talk about a collection that is very inspired called Muse.
Nada Ghazal:
Yes.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
I really enjoyed you explaining the various ways in which you choose to translate those inspirations, that connection that you feel. Would you indulge in me reminding me, because there's a really beautiful series of hand-painted rings and lockets? What did they represent? Was it flowers? Because they were so gorgeous.
Nada Ghazal:
The main collection is called Muse, and it's separated to different sections, different collections. One of them is called Glory. I don't know if this is the one you're talking about. It has a lot of pattern, and these patterns are patterns that are actually on our beautiful ceilings and domes. Some of these domes were closed for a long time, but then after the Beirut blast, unfortunately, some of the doors and windows got shattered. People were able to go inside and see all of these beautiful domes. These are the domes that inspired me to create these rings and try to actually make these patterns either with embossed gold or with enamel or with stones. So yes, this is where this part came from.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
I wanted to talk about the blast because when you and I first spoke, I found out that your office was within the radius of it. Would you mind telling us how that day unfolded and how did you guys manage after?
Nada Ghazal:
I think besides my father's death at a very young age, I think this must have been the worst day that most Lebanese actually have gone through, not just me. Although our house was bombed four or five times, I've been in many explosions before, I've lived throughout the war, I've lost a lot of loved ones, et cetera, but this blast definitely has given me definitely the strongest scar. We were at the office here. The port is just around 900 meters just opposite, so it's just very close or a kilometer opposite, very close. Not all of us were at the office, luckily. It was a normal day. We were a little bit late at the office just finalizing few things, and just in a split of a second, our whole lives were shattered. Everything that you see around you, I mean, all of this glass that was destroyed, even the metal frames, some of the metal frames were just split in pieces everywhere.
The machines were just in different places going through different parts of the office. I have no idea how we actually survived. There were four of us at the office. One of my colleagues was touching me because she saw me running and she saw everything getting destroyed around me, so she thought it was actually my ghosts. She could not even believe that that was me. We had no idea what was happening. We had no idea whether we were bombed. It was an explosion. It was just a nightmare. I mean, imagine just in a split of a second everything is completely destroyed. We were all screaming. I went a bit crazy.
I could not connect to anyone. We could not connect to anyone for half an hour, so I was worried about my children in one place, my husband in one place. We thought we were getting bombed. We really panicked because we just had no idea about everyone else, obviously. Until I was able to get hold of my husband, who actually said, "I'm okay. I'm okay. Don't worry." I just thought, "Why is he saying that, I'm the one who was bombed?" He had no idea that this affected me, and he thought he was on it. So each one of us thought that our own building was bombed but did not realize that half of the city was down.
Anyway, after an hour I was able to go home to see the full house destroyed as well. No one can really explain what happened, but I can definitely tell you that this has given me a scar that would just remain forever. And it has given most of the Lebanese people the same scar, it's not just like me. Yeah, it gave us that scar, but to me it gave me that courage and this strength to rebuild and start again.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Yeah, I'm so happy that everyone... I mean, that your loved ones and your team are okay. I know that the devastation from that day is nearly unspeakable. But it must feel really great to now have your atelier, your brand, everything back and running and to be able to continue to be inspired by Beirut and to share this love that you have, this passion and these stories with people outside. Maybe now is a good time for me to ask you in the first place, why did you choose to move to Beirut to launch your brand?
Nada Ghazal:
Okay, I'll tell you, because as I said, I mean, as a child I had to go to boarding school. And then after I finished university, I had to go to Dubai and work in Dubai because I had more opportunities there. I just felt that I lived most of my life away from my family.I still had my twin brothers in Beirut going to university and my mother, and I thought, "I've never really lived with my twin brothers and maybe this is an opportunity to do that." I also thought that I would want to build my brand in a place where I would want to retire, and that would be my own country.
The other thing is I felt I needed to start giving back to my community. And by starting a business and building a business and growing a business, I would be entirely giving back to my community. And so I thought, "No, it has to be in Beirut rather than anywhere else." Now, I came back to Beirut, and when I started my business, I actually had my brothers who were still at university working with me part-time as well, helping me part time. So when I opened the company, I registered it in our names, the three of us, and then afterwards with my three brothers. But unfortunately, opened my store in Beirut and my little mini workshop in Beirut, and three months after, there was a big assassination of our prime minister. One of my brothers was graduating then, so I told him I don't know where this company may go. I encouraged him to go to Dubai and start working there.
This was in 2005. And then a year later when my second brother was graduating, we had the summer war in 2006, and my brother left Beirut in the ship to Cypress and then to Dubai because I told him I'm not sure where the business will go to after that because we did not even know how long that war was going to last. So I ended up being on my own after coming back. And then 15 years later, my sister who lives in Dubai and who was helping in business development while she was there, decided to move back to Beirut and work with me. So I'm lucky to have her.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Oh yay.
Nada Ghazal:
Have her here. So the two of us are here, and then we have four siblings in Dubai. So yeah, we're a family of six, a big family, a wonderful, big family.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Oh, that's wonderful. One thing that came up for me as you were telling me all of these stories, because also I've watched the film this morning of your Muse collection with all of its different parts, you know what I would love to see? I would love for you to film or go around the streets of Beirut and show part of this inspiration behind the jewelry, because somehow I'm transported by the stories you're telling me, the parts of it that are very sad. So yeah, I'd love to see it through your eyes basically.
Nada Ghazal:
But do you know that I create to show that.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
No.
Nada Ghazal:
Yeah. I actually created a book called My Beirut.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Oh, that's gorgeous.
Nada Ghazal:
I'm going to send you a copy of this book.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Oh yes, please.
Nada Ghazal:
I worked with a friend of mine who actually was working with sketches of... Sorry, this is my last story with Beirut... And were actually the sketches of the places that I took pictures of that inspired me. And because we talked about the ceilings, actually, this is an image of one of the-
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Ah, that's exactly the ring that I was looking at in the video.
Nada Ghazal:
Yeah.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Oh, that's beautiful.
Nada Ghazal:
So yes. I thought, "Instead of actually just taking pictures, why don't I get a friend who can actually sketch them?" Because that's what she does, as a matter of fact. She does sketches of Beirut, she's an urban artist. I thought she would be the best person to do that. This was like to me a way to share my Beirut, my muse with people around the world, through jewelry and through sketches.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Thank you so much. That's gorgeous. I'm very moved and I'm so excited that you did that.
Nada Ghazal:
Thank you.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Now, there's something else that rose in my mind as you were speaking about your brothers graduating in going to university in Beirut. A long time ago, when I was in my early twenties, I had a great friend called Soraya, who's of Syrian origin. One of her best friends... or was it her sister? I think it maybe must have been her sister... went to university in Beirut. I will always remember because she was very emphatic about how she described that. She said, "Anne, you don't understand, Beirut is incredible. Because the city and of course the country has gone through so many hardships, people are amazing and they party so much and they love life so much."
But what's striking is that she described to me what she thought was the relationship with the Lebanese and jewelry. She said, "People, they wear all of their jewelry. They go out. Because they don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, so they really live life to the fullest." It's interesting because the first and only time that I visited, I felt that, I felt what she described. I felt that very deep connection to life, which also translate in food, because let's talk about how... I don't know how to say this. Let's just say that I had the best meal of my life just outside of Beirut. I don't remember the name of the restaurant, but it was simply extraordinary.
I just wanted to say that because it feels like such a thin connection. There's so many things that our friends tell us, but this thing that she said that day, somehow she was telling me a story of someone else, she was painting a picture, and that's always made me feel connected to your city. I hope I'll be able to visit another time.
Nada Ghazal:
I'm really happy to hear that you're connected to the city. I think actually every person who visits the city gets connected to it. There is some kind of a charm to it. I don't know, I always say we live in a sacred city. There is something there. There is a secret to Beirut. There is a secret that I can't explain. There is one. There is one. I mean, there are beautiful cities all around the world.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Of course.
Nada Ghazal:
I've always heard that whoever comes to the city once, they feel at home as well. But as you said, I mean, yes, Lebanese people, they love to look good. They love to go out. They love to enjoy themselves. And yes, they love to wear jewelry, and they love to buy jewelry. It's great thing to be me.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
I was thinking, "Yeah, you really made a good choice when you picked Lebanon to come back and launch your business."
Nada Ghazal:
Exactly. I think it was an excellent choice. The thing is also because in the times of my parents, I mean, Lebanon was called a Switzerland of the Middle East. It had a lot of glory. It had a lot of glory, so people were glorious as well. People looked exactly like their city. It was beautiful, and they wanted to dress up and go out. Lebanon had a lot of tourists and a lot of culture and wonderful museums and wonderful art and wonderful music. So people were actually similar to what the city was.
Unfortunately, the city is changing. It has changed due to the conflicts that have happened past 30 years or more. You still have a lot of people who are trying to hang on to the beautiful Beirut and who are still hanging onto living that wonderful life. So you have that part, but there is now a lot of contradiction and, unfortunately, a lot of contrast. It's nice to have a mix. We've always been a mix of east and west. That's what made Lebanon beautiful as well. But we want to keep that beautiful city, so a lot of us are trying to hang on to that beautiful city. Many of us are unfortunately destroying that beautiful city. I think this is the pain that every single person who wants beautiful Lebanon to remain beautiful Lebanon is going through.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Yeah, I mean, I don't know what to say. I understand what you said earlier about trying to hold on and creating pieces that celebrate what you see. I feel the emotion in what you're saying. Now, let's talk about something quite wonderful. In 2017, you were actually named Lebanese Entrepreneur of the Year. That's fantastic. I hear that this was a real tipping point for your business. Can you tell us that story?
Nada Ghazal:
Yes, actually, it's a wonderful thing that happened to me, and this is a great point. I was contacted by someone to enter this competition, the Woman Entrepreneur of the Year. I just had a bit of a thought about it. And then when I looked at who the jury are, who are great business, successful women and men, I thought, "No, I want to enter this competition because I'm sure I'm going to learn something from them." What made it actually a tipping point for me was the process. Because to go through the process and the presentation and all of the work that I had to go through to actually present made me challenge myself a lot, working on the business plan, working on the forecast for five years, et cetera. So that process was a big challenge for me.
That was the first part of it, which was very interesting for me. And then when I presented, I learned a lot from the great jury. And then even after I won the awards, I had new opportunities that I never had before. Because in Lebanon when I started, the government never helped in anything for startups at all. We did not have private organizations that truly helped startups. So by the time I was not a startup anymore, we started having more of these organizations, but I was not a startup so I was not part of them. But then I was introduced to different organizations that really helped me in mentorship, helped me in starting up a bigger workshop, et cetera. So from one point, I had more sports, and from another point, I challenged myself to do more. It also gave me the courage to grow the business more. Whatever I did during that period was a tipping point to whatever I have today. So this is why I think it was an amazing experience for me.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
That's wonderful. Thank you for offering me a perfect segue to talk about how you're envisaging growing your business, because I know you have hopes to extend the distribution internationally. Tell me about what you're hoping to achieve for your beautiful brand.
Nada Ghazal:
Sure. In 2019, we rebranded our business from me to Nada G to Nada Ghazal Fine Jewelry, because when I started the business it was Nada G, and then growing further, it became Nada Ghazal Fine Jewelry, so we rebranded. We already had the four points of sales in Beirut, three in a department store and one at a boutique. And then November 2019, we were meant to open a bigger flagship store with a very uniquely daily experience. We could not do that because the evolution started a month earlier exactly in front of our store, exactly just in front of it. Yes.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Oh my God.
Nada Ghazal:
We could not do that. We postponed that till 2020. But then when we had the blast in 2020, that store was completely destroyed, so we gave it back to its owner. Meanwhile, we started exhibiting internationally, and we started exhibiting internationally, we had a sales agent, et cetera, to start selling more throughout world. Since then, since 2020, we've had great growth internationally. We have now around maybe 25 points of sales that we sell at in the US, in the UK, in UAE, in Saudi, in Qatar. Our international market is really growing, so our wholesale part is really growing. Now we want to carry on growing internationally through different retailers who are our partners actually. Our plan is to hopefully open our own flagship store actually in London.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Oh yay.
Nada Ghazal:
Because unfortunately, I cannot have my flagship store in Beirut now. I think now with what London is going through at the point, I think London would be my second home. I just feel very connected to the city as well. I feel connected to the UK maybe because I was there as a child in boarding school, and London has taught me a lot. I just love it for what it has taught me. So yes, this would probably be our next project, to open a flagship store in London hopefully soon. Or to start working on it at least.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Yeah, that's wonderful news. Sure.
Nada Ghazal:
Also, it would be something that would support our retailers in London as well because I want to make sure that this is something that will give to our retailers rather than take from our retailers. This is very important for me.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Yeah, I mean, I come from a retail and wholesale background that actually competition supports the business. Like you said, when you treat your clients as your partners, everything's different.
Nada Ghazal:
Yeah. I mean, we do have two wonderful partners in London. We sell at Liberty and at Dover Street Market. I just love both stores. They're very different. We try to feature different pieces in each store ,and we try to support them in different ways. I think being there, having flagship, they will have way more support. The brand will have more exposure. People would want the brand more. And we would always make sure to give them to create pieces that they would only be selling, that would not be available at this store. This is how I think about it. I mean, having this together, we will grow in different ways. So it'll be just great for all of us.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
I completely agree. I'm very excited.
Nada Ghazal:
Thank you.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Wonderful. Now, you know that the podcast is at the crossroads between business and mindfulness, because, of course, I'm fascinated by the world of work, and I do think very much to your point that there's a lot that we teach each other in the stories that we tell how we communicate about the work that we do, the creative work as much as everything else. In essence, I wonder, what supports you, Nada? What mindfulness, mindful rituals have supported you, grounded you, and helped you feel balanced through the ups and downs that you've gone to? When I say ups and downs, more than most people I know, we're talking very, very big downs and very big ups.
Nada Ghazal:
Well, I'll tell you, I do need some rituals. I cannot live without few of the rituals that I do, honestly. I do a breathing exercise every morning. This is something that's very important to me. Sometimes I miss on it because sometimes I have these days where I need them most, but I cannot make them, where I just want that extra 10 minutes just to sleep and not think because of these ups and downs. But breathing exercises are very important to me.
I think meditation has made such a difference in my life. I started meditation when I came back to Beirut. I never used to meditate before. I luckily met a wonderful person by chance. Meditation changed my life because, I mean, it even taught me how important forgiveness is. I think just learning to forgive changes your life. Actually, I am a very forgiving person, and meditation made me forgive the fact that my father passed away, to forgive Mother Nature in general that took my father away from me and that changed my life a lot.
I do a bit of tapping for anxiety. So whenever I wake up with that pain in my stomach that comes from fear, I do tapping exercises for anxiety. These are the three main things that I do regularly. Talking about it now, I think I should do it more often. Because talking about it makes me realize how these exercises or rituals help me. Sometimes I just tend to give up on them, and then when I go back to them, I realize how important they are in my life.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
I appreciate that. I know I've discussed it with a few of the friends and guests on the show, I think that whatever is our best self-care tends to be the first thing we drop when we're stressed. Because of our problem-solving mind, we're trying to think of the most urgent thing to do and we forget those things that make us more stable, more calm, more grounded. So it's not just you, is basically what I want to say.
Nada Ghazal:
I mean, I always say I've been at my best when I used to meditate most. Your intuition, I mean, everything that you have becomes stronger. So yeah, I'm going to meditate tonight, although I meditate in the morning usually. But I haven't for a week, so I'm going to have a session tonight.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Oh good. Yeah, sometimes we need to reconnect. I do find that any sort of big change in my life also throws my routine a little bit off-kilter. But one of the things I've found, and I'm saying this because this may be of use to you, sometimes if you find two, three teachers that you can follow, if they have online workshops and stuff, that gives you an opportunity of doing a slightly longer session. I know I have one tomorrow with a teacher called Sally Campton, and I'm really looking forward to it. It's a two-hour workshop, and I need it. But now I have to ask you, what kind of meditation is it that you practice?
Nada Ghazal:
Sometimes I follow a specific meditation that [inaudible 00:50:10] my different chakras, and sometimes I create my own, really. It depends. And sometimes I go through group meditation as well. But, I mean, what I like most is going through a guided meditation that clears my chakras. So this is what I do most.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
That sounds great. I do find the visualization part on the chakras or the way that you have to breathe, I do find it quite challenging. It's not an easy, breezy practice, but it always feels very enlivening or sharpening somehow. I'll send you my guided meditations if you want to try them.
Nada Ghazal:
Oh, would love that. I would really, really love that. Please do.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Yeah, I'll send you a link. They're on my website and on Insight Timer as well. Thank you so much for answering these questions. It's always very enriching for me to find out what other people practice and what works. Now, we've talked about a lot of things, is there anything else that we haven't talked about that you'd like to share with our listeners or that I forgot to ask you perhaps?
Nada Ghazal:
No, I think it's been great actually. I'm just worried that I said too much.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
No.
Nada Ghazal:
It's really funny, because as a child, I never used to say too much, honestly, but my work taught me how to express in words. My friends used to always tell me, "Oh, we tell you about everything, but whenever you say something, it's just very minimal." Like, "Did you have fun yesterday when you went out with your boyfriend?" I would say, "Yes," but that's it. I was never very expressive. But when I started creating jewelry and when I started to explain why I created these pieces, that taught me how to express in general. So now when someone asks me a question, it's never a one-word answer, it's a very long one. So I'm always worried about saying too much.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Definitely not. And also, you need to know that I am trying to let you speak. I am trying to be quiet and not to interrupt. I do find that one of the hardest things that I've ever had to do, which the podcast is certainly helping me, is to shut up and let people speak, and listen. Which as a coach and a consultant on the professional front, it's good when I let my clients speak. So thank you. This is always a good practice for me.
Nada Ghazal:
Thank you.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
So here are a few of my favorite questions that I like to ask all of my guests to close. First, what is a favorite word of yours that you could tattoo on yourself and live with at least for a while?
Nada Ghazal:
I think I love the word courage. I really do. The heart itself is something I love. And if it's a tattoo, Beirut could be one of them, honestly, because it's something that I would want to have for the rest of my life. My love for Beirut is something that would never change, so that could be one of them as well.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
It's funny you said courage because I picked up on it, you said it more than once, and I almost asked you a question about that. So now I want to follow that thread. What does courage mean to you?
Nada Ghazal:
Courage is picking yourself up at the most difficult time. I think it's the most difficult thing to do, and if you have the courage to do it, then you'll be okay. I've had to do it many times in my life, and this is why I often think about it.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Beautiful. What does connection mean to you?
Nada Ghazal:
I think it would be some kind of an authentic bond that relates me to others irrespective of our differences.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
What song best represents you?
Nada Ghazal:
It's a difficult question, but my sister, she always says that Imagine by The Beetles is something that represents me, although I had never thought about it. So yeah, I think it would be that because she knows me very well.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
I love that. It's the first time that one of my guest answers because someone else has identified a song that represents them. That's really cool.
Nada Ghazal:
Yeah, it's really weird because sometimes I think of things that I can never figure out about myself, and I just run it by my sister and she immediately tells me something that is so true. She's my eldest sister, and we took care of each other growing up, I think. She took more care of me, I suppose, but sometimes I think she just knows me as much as I know myself.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
How wonderful. What is the sweetest thing that's ever happened to you?
Nada Ghazal:
I think this is a question that's very difficult to answer. I'm not sure. Maybe it's a blessing to have kids, and I have three of them, so maybe this could be an answer.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
It's your answer. I'm not judging. It's your answer.
Nada Ghazal:
I mean, the sweetest thing, I mean, it's like... Yeah, because the word sweetest is just like, that's the sweetest feeling I've had, just like the birth itself was such a sweet feeling. So I would say, yeah, the birth of three kids.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Wonderful. What is a secret superpower that you have?
Nada Ghazal:
My intuition.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Oh, I love that.
Nada Ghazal:
Yeah, my intuition, for sure.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
What's a favorite book of yours that you could share with us?
Nada Ghazal:
I wouldn't say I have a favorite, but I would say Many Lives, Many Masters is a book that had an impact on my life because it made me accept things that I may have not used to be able to accept. So yeah, Many Lives, Many Masters would be one of them.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Wonderful. Where is somewhere that you've visited that you felt really had an impact on who you are today?
Nada Ghazal:
I think boarding school. Boarding school had a big impact on my life, for sure.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Yeah, that I would imagine that. Where were you exactly?
Nada Ghazal:
I was in Kent in a village called [inaudible 00:57:28], and I went there at the age of nine, I think... 10, I think 10.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
I don't know if it's the same for you, but I have some of my closest friends who are either British or Irish, went to boarding school, and have made the greatest friends of their whole lives, and they seem to have absolutely loved it. Was that your case as well?
Nada Ghazal:
Yes, I made really wonderful friends. It was very difficult to connect with them when I came back to Lebanon because we still had war. I mean, connection was very difficult back then. But believe it or not, we went back in touch through Facebook. Just this summer, just in August when I went to London, I saw friends who I haven't seen for 37 years.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Wow.
Nada Ghazal:
They would always have a special place in my hearts. Yes, for sure.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
That's really amazing. I'm going to ask you my last and favorite question, what brings you happiness?
Nada Ghazal:
I've tried to teach myself that happiness comes from within, in a sense of I try to be happy regardless of what happens around me. Because I do not wish for the ups and downs to change who I really am and how I feel. I don't think there is something specific. I feel it just really comes from within. I try not to get affected by the outside world. The outside world affects my needs, does not affect my states of mind. I try to be content no matter what happens. I think I've found the balance somewhere there. Sometimes I'm more joyful or less joyful, but I'm always a happy person.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Thank you. Fascinating, enlightening answer. Observing you as you answer my questions and tell stories about the jewelry and Beirut and your family, et cetera, I was thinking you feel very radiant. It's funny to say that about someone I don't know very well across from a Zoom screen, but there is something that is emanating that I think speaks to what you were just saying.
Nada Ghazal:
Yeah, I mean, thank you for seeing that. Thank you.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Well, it was such a pleasure to speak to you, Nada. First of all, in awe of your amazing collection. I've spent way too much time after our first chat on your website. Where can people find you? If they would like to find out more about you, about your collections, how can they get in touch?
Nada Ghazal:
Okay, so, of course, we have our website, nadaghazal.com, and we're on all social media platforms as Nada Ghazal Jewelry. On my website, there's stockists, so the names of all our partners who sell our brand in different places in the world. And last but not least, we do sell online, so worldwide. That's also an option for those who do like the pieces and would like to purchase anything online.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
That's wonderful. Thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure. Have a lovely, lovely rest of the day. I hope that we'll get to meet in person sometimes soon in Paris or in London or perhaps in Switzerland and perhaps one day in Lebanon.
Nada Ghazal:
Yes. Thank you so much, Anne. Really, it was a pleasure. Because what's really wonderful is that sometimes when someone asks you questions, you learn from their questions and you learn from the interaction and you learn from your own answers. You always learn something about yourself from learning about others, so this has been really a pleasure.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
Oh, I'm so glad. I'm so, so glad. Well, thank you so much, and hopefully connect again very soon.
Nada Ghazal:
And we will meet very soon, I'm sure.
Anne V Muhlethaler:
So friends and listeners, thanks again for joining me today. If you'd like to hear more, you can subscribe to the show on the platform of your choice. If you'd like to connect, you can get in touch with me at AnneV on Twitter, Ann Muhlethaler on LinkedIn, or on Instagram @_outoftheclouds, where I also share daily musings about mindfulness. You can also find all of the episodes of the podcast and much more on my website, annevmuhlethaler.com. If you don't know how to spell, it's also going to be in the show notes. If you would like to get regular news directly delivered to your inbox, I invite you to sign up to my monthly newsletter.
So that's it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening to Out of the Cloud. I hope that you will join me again next time. Until then, be well, be safe, and take care.